Card only TVMs and LM

[Bletchleyite]

Saw the attached photo at Bletchley today making it clear that if passengers wish to pay cash on LM services and only a card ("credit card"? ) TVM is available, they have no obligation to use it even if they have a card.

I have the impression no other TOC states policy as clearly.

Perhaps a national policy is needed?

 

[najaB]

It's something sensible. From the railway? This must be stopped!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also just noticed the geographic number added for customer services.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Saw the attached photo at Bletchley today making it clear that if passengers wish to pay cash on LM services and only a card ("credit card"? ) TVM is available, they have no obligation to use it even if they have a card.

I have the impression no other TOC states policy as clearly.

Perhaps a national policy is needed?

It would stop all the threads in Disputes and Prosecutions from South Wales Valleys

 

[Hadders]

I wonder if this is a locally produced poster?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if this is a locally produced poster?

It clearly is, but similar posters are present at several other LM stations (Tring certainly) so it is clearly policy.

 

[Essan]

Is the issue here not so much cash, but that the machine (according to the notice) only accepts credit cards? ie, not debit cards?

There may be a legal obligation to allow for non credit payment?

 

[pemma]

Is the issue here not so much cash, but that the machine (according to the notice) only accepts credit cards? ie, not debit cards?

There may be a legal obligation to allow for non credit payment?

I've found the Parkeon Northern TVMs frequently refuse to process credit card payments but debit cards usually work every time.

Of course if it is credit card only then no-one under 18 can buy their own ticket from the machine.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is the issue here not so much cash, but that the machine (according to the notice) only accepts credit cards? ie, not debit cards?

There may be a legal obligation to allow for non credit payment?

There is no legal requirement to accept any given form of payment where payment is made in advance of receiving the product or service[1], though there may well be a franchise term.

However, that particular part of the notice is an error and debit cards are indeed accepted at the TVM it refers to.

[1] Car hire companies often only accept credit, not debit, cards, because then they can bill you a fair whack if you damage the car.

 

[Qwerty133]

I've found the Parkeon Northern TVMs frequently refuse to process credit card payments but debit cards usually work every time.

Of course if it is credit card only then no-one under 18 can buy their own ticket from the machine.

Under 18s can have pre-paid cards which are generally seen as a type of credit card.

 

[Merseysider]

There is no legal requirement to accept any given form of payment where payment is made in advance of receiving the product or service[1], though there may well be a franchise term.

Correct, in general.

Thankfully, we have the TSA

(1) Generally applicable methods of payment
Each Operator must accept the following methods of payment for Rail Products:-
(a) cash denominated in pounds sterling;
(b) cheques denominated in pounds sterling which are drawn on a UK financial
institution and supported by a cheque guarantee card for the amount payable;
(c) Warrants (in the circumstances set out in Clause 7-21 below);
(d) Vouchers (in the circumstances set out in Clause 7-35 below);
(e) Permits to Travel (in the circumstances set out in Clause 7-39 below); and
(f) National Transport Tokens (in the circumstances set out in Clause 7-41
below).
(2) Credit Cards
(a) In addition to the methods of payment referred to in sub-Clause (1) above, each Operator must accept as a method of payment for any Rail Product that is Sold at the Regulated Stations listed in Schedule 17, Credit Cards of the type indicated in that Schedule against the name of the relevant Station.
(b) Where, in respect of a Regulated Station, more than one Credit Card Company issues Credit Cards of the type specified in Schedule 17 against the name of that Station, the particular Credit Cards of that type which are accepted at that Station are at the discretion of each Operator which Sells Rail Products there.

 

[Deerfold]

Also just noticed the geographic number added for customer services.

Not quite sure what that adds - both numbers should be charged at the same rates.

 

[Deerfold]

Under 18s can have pre-paid cards which are generally seen as a type of credit card.

Can, but rarely do. And usually come with extra fees.

 

[najaB]

Not quite sure what that adds - both numbers should be charged at the same rates.

However, some mobile plans still don't include 08x non-geographic numbers in their inclusive minutes. Plus people with non-UK mobiles sometimes have difficulty dialling non-geographic numbers.

 

[takke]

Under 18s can have pre-paid cards which are generally seen as a type of credit card.

Sometimes considered credit, sometimes debit. Depends on the card and even the transaction.

 

[Deerfold]

However, some mobile plans still don't include 08x non-geographic numbers in their inclusive minutes. Plus people with non-UK mobiles sometimes have difficulty dialling non-geographic numbers.

Whilst true, I'm not sure I see the relevance as the other number starts 0344.

 

[najaB]

Whilst true, I'm not sure I see the relevance as the other number starts 0344.

Many people don't know that 033x numbers are covered by their inclusive minutes.

 

[Deerfold]

Many people don't know that 033x numbers are covered by their inclusive minutes.

If that's the worry they could put (charged at the same rate as 01 and 02 numbers) rather than an extra number.

Still not sure how that makes your previous comment relevant.

 

[najaB]

Still not sure how that makes your previous comment relevant.

Because many people don't even try dialing non-geographic numbers from their mobiles - I have seen this in practice.

All it cost extra was a tiny bit of toner so I can't really see why you find it objectionable.

 

[Deerfold]

Because many people don't even try dialing non-geographic numbers from their mobiles - I have seen this in practice.

All it cost extra was a tiny bit of toner so I can't really see why you find it objectionable.

You specifically mentioned 08xx numbers and problems with connecting from overseas which shouldn't affect 03xx numbers - all I'd said was that 03xx numbers are charged at the same rate. I don't find it objectionable, I just didn't see the connection - you're now justifying it with points which are nothing to do with your original point. Again, if people are misunderstanding, it'd be better to explain that the number works the same as 01xx and 02xx numbers.

 

[najaB]

You specifically mentioned 08xx numbers and problems with connecting from overseas which shouldn't affect 03xx numbers...

Sorry, I didn't make it clear in the my first post that because some people don't get 08xx non-geo numbers included in their plans they don't think they can call *any* non-geo numbers. And, sadly, 03xx numbers are still treated as non-geo numbers by some international mobile operators.

Again, I don't get why it's even worth noting that they included a geographic number - they've reduced any 'How much is this call costing me?' anxiety - and it would have taken the person making the sign an extra 30 seconds to type the number and no meaningful amount of extra toner.