It’s a Trojan horse for an out of town office development. The net effect may well be modal shift to cars.
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Cardiff Parkway
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DaveHarries
Established Member
Not necessarily. If enough jobs and businesses moved in to the units at the new business park then they, combined with the potential for passengers in the eastern suburbs, may well make the station viable. I have used buses into Cardiff from the east before and depending where you are travelling from it can take a good while. The station could also provide links from a variety of destinations too.
Dave
Baxenden Bank
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I would tend towards that view too. Lets see if the station gets built before the commercial floorpsace or, like some distribution parks, the rail element gets revised out at a later date.
I live in east Cardiff. It's a 20-25 minute cycle to Central. I depart the house 30-35 minutes before departure. I could probably ride to Cardiff Parkway in 10-12 minutes. Plus eastbound trains would depart five minutes later. I could easily save 15-20 minutes. Similar story with the bus. Scheduled to take 35 minutes to Central. Assuming the 44 and 45 run to Cardiff Parkway, they would, depending on route, arrive there in about 20 minutes. However, how much I use the station will depend how much stops there. For example, if the London trains don't stop, then I will continue to cycle to Central. There is no way I want to sit at Newport on the way home in the evening.
Edited to clarify that I'm talking about Cardiff Parkway, not Cardiff East.
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Might be that OA or some peaks call.
There are also potential extras coming (e.g. Midlands hub addl to Cardiff, 1p2h Liverpool) - one day - which might add new destinations, but also a metro frequency to Cardiff (and yes, Newport!)
I disagree with Trojan Horse argument - this is a combined development with the station needed to enhance value of offices and vice versa. Ultimatley it is a win-win situation for everyone. But you cant have business park without station...and vice versa.
I used to live nearby and public transport in this area is not viable by bus.
I used to live nearby and public transport in this area is not viable by bus.
I used to live nearby and I can guarantee that if you build a station there it will have disappeared next morning and there will just be a few decrepit looking ponies grazing among a pile of old matresses on the site where it used to be.
Maybe. I know money is tight, but if the public transport case is that strong WG should have prioritised and funded it and refused the green office development. A of parking is proposed by the developers- far more than needed to support the station.
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CardiffKid
On Moderation
It wasn't a serious suggestion of course.
But why? Public money is limited - here we have an offee of 'free ' money to build a significant piece of public transport infrastructure. There are strings attached, but not big ones. This is really an infill development which extends existing developments up to a 'natural' barrier, ie the railway line. Thisvis not an area of natural beauty
No need to refuse - just stipulate that no building work may commence on the business park until the station is open (has been open x months) and that building work must at no time interfere with access to the station.
What commitments have any of the potential operators made to stop there? Planning permission for a station is pretty useless if for either commercial or operational reasons trains won’t stop. If all it gets is 1 train per hour to say Ebbw Vale then it won’t be particularly useful.
sefyllian
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TfW ran a consultation last year on possible service options for the new stations on the South Wales main line.
TfW said:
The consulation document has options for two, three and four tph. Basically, the Cheltenham Spa services would stop there, plus proposed new Cardiff Central–Bristol Temple Meads services.
Topological
Established Member
I think it is unrealistic to expect a large number of trains stopping in the initial consultations. The station will need to demonstrate it can generate sufficient traffic before more trains stop.
Most important thing is to get the thing built. If the station is not built then it definitely wont be generating more passengers for the railways.
If the developer is paying then all the better.
Most important thing is to get the thing built. If the station is not built then it definitely wont be generating more passengers for the railways.
If the developer is paying then all the better.
Surely TfW can mandate calls on its own services (what’s the point of it if it can’t?) As the “English” operators are not running under open-access rules, maybe it can for them as well.
Doesn’t necessarily solve operational impossibilities,ok.
Baxenden Bank
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The cost of the station, back in 2020 was £120m.
I guess the parallel is Bristol Parkway, or more recently Worcestershire Parkway. Bristol was 'out in the wilds' for many years but close to motorways. It was a pretty basic (well ugly basic) station for many years and was incrementally improved to what it is today.
I guess the parallel is Bristol Parkway, or more recently Worcestershire Parkway. Bristol was 'out in the wilds' for many years but close to motorways. It was a pretty basic (well ugly basic) station for many years and was incrementally improved to what it is today.
I think that Cardiff Parkway is a separate project. The linked document mentions Cardiff East (Newport Road). Cardiff Parkway is to be built near St Mellons, to the east of Hendre Park. Not far from the end of Cypress Drive. That is nowhere near Newport Road.
sefyllian
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There are six planned stations on the SWML between Cardiff and Severn Tunnel Junction. Five developed by TfW, plus Cardiff Parkway as an independent project. Most of that consultation is indeed about the 5 TfW stations, but the part about service patterns includes Cardiff Parkway (see Service Pattern map on page 2)
CapitalStar378
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I think the thread name is confusing matters, there is Cardiff Parkway and there is the planned Cardiff East, as recommended in the Burns report.
I hadn't clicked on the second link, my apologies. It does seem to talk about the plan for all the extra stations. Hopefully, Cardiff Parkway will be open a long time before the others. The vast majority of my journeys are on trains to Manchester and London. If they do not stop at Cardiff Parkway, then I will carry on using Central.
Imagine that the stopping service is every 15 minutes. I'm not foolish enough to risk the train that would arrive in Newport five minutes before my intended connection. If it were late or cancelled, I would see the Manchester train whizz past and have to wait nearly an hour in Newport. So I'd catch the train that gives a 20 minute connection. That wipes out the time advantage so I might as well ride to Central and avoid the need to change.
Envoy
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The original Grand Union Trains application for Carmarthen to London included a stop at the Cardiff East Parkway station as well as Severn Tunnel Junction. That approved application has now passed to First Group who will run it as a LUMO service - similar to their King’s Cross to Edinburgh services. So, the large population will indeed have direct fast trains to London - as well as westbound to Cardiff Central and west Wales.
The TFW Cheltenham services are also likely to stop at this new station and stopping services to Bristol Temple Meads will presumably use the relief lines. Thus, it should provide plenty of services to Newport & Cardiff Central for those needing to transfer to express trains that go non stop from Cardiff Central to Newport & beyond as well as westward.
It is regrettable that 2 years have been wasted in not giving the final go ahead for this new station.
The TFW Cheltenham services are also likely to stop at this new station and stopping services to Bristol Temple Meads will presumably use the relief lines. Thus, it should provide plenty of services to Newport & Cardiff Central for those needing to transfer to express trains that go non stop from Cardiff Central to Newport & beyond as well as westward.
It is regrettable that 2 years have been wasted in not giving the final go ahead for this new station.
1. Cardiff Parkway should open relatively quickly - and initially be served by Cardiff - Ebbw and Cardiff - Cheltenham services operated by TfW.
2. Cardiff-Bristol services operated by TfW will come later when 'Burns' stations/Metro East opens in maybe 5 years. These will stop at Parkway.
3. Unlikely GWR intercity or regional services will stop there. Maybe TfW Marches line will.
4. Grand Union say they will stop there.
Ps this is not Cardiff East (which is to be located at Newport Road/Rover Way).
2. Cardiff-Bristol services operated by TfW will come later when 'Burns' stations/Metro East opens in maybe 5 years. These will stop at Parkway.
3. Unlikely GWR intercity or regional services will stop there. Maybe TfW Marches line will.
4. Grand Union say they will stop there.
Ps this is not Cardiff East (which is to be located at Newport Road/Rover Way).
Envoy
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It is now 1 February 2025 and apart from Cardiff East Parkway, we have not had any commitment to actually get building the other ‘Burns’ stations such as Tredegar Park, Llanwern, Magor. So, no new M4 south of Newport and no new stations either - not that I think that the stations will solve the problem of the choke point on the M4 at the Newport tunnel - but they would help - a bit.
The additional stations would not only benefit south Wales but also the Bristol area as in many respects, it is one big economic region. Indeed, the organisation called Western Gateway was set up to oversee the connectivity of this part of Britain.
western-gateway.co.uk
The additional stations would not only benefit south Wales but also the Bristol area as in many respects, it is one big economic region. Indeed, the organisation called Western Gateway was set up to oversee the connectivity of this part of Britain.
Western Gateway: Net-zero Innovation Connectivity International
Western Gateway is the UK's first pan-regional partnership to bring together local leaders from two countries. Stretching across South Wales and Western and Western England.
western-gateway.co.uk
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Still only an aspiration, isn’t it?
Topological
Established Member
That is a very good analogy. Now Bristol Parkway is arguably too small and in need of work on its various junctions. It is a long way from the Bristol Parkway I first used.
There has to be realism about development. The channels along railways are natural candidates because they have the public transport in place. The South Wales Main Line is even more of an ideal candidate because it has reliefs to allow stopping trains to call at the new stations.
The proposed Cardiff Parkway is not a junction, but it is passed by trains to diverse destinations (Manchester, North Wales, Crewe, Birmingham, London, Bristol and South West) that could call if demand grew. I do believe there will be organic growth rather than a big bang.
It seems there is a virtuous circle for development and that this is the natural extension direction for Cardiff.
One day maybe Cardiff Parkway will be like a new Stockport.
Why do you think it's unlikely other trains will stop there? Two trains an hour, five minutes apart is hardly the best use of a new station.