Carriage type identifiers (or whatever they're called)

py_megapixel

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Looking at the formation of a 319 for example:
DTSO+PMSO+MSOL+DTSO
I was trying to work out what each of the abbreviations means. Here are my assumptions so far, [??] being things I can't work out:

DTSO = Driving [??] Standard [??]
PMSO = Pantograph Motor Standard [??]
MSOL = Motor Standard [??] Lavatory
DTSO = Driving [??] Standard [??]

There are also other letters which we see in these. I'd like it if we could make this thread into a guide to what these mean. (Of course it's entirely possible that something like this already exists; if so please link to it).
 
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py_megapixel

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DTSO - driving trailer standard open
PMSO - second open
MSOL - open lavatory
Ah, Open. Is that some remnant from when trains had compartment stock and open-saloon stock in the same train for example? Would there have been C for Compartment?
 

Bevan Price

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DTSO - driving trailer standard open
PMSO - second open
MSOL - open lavatory
Plus a few more:
F = First Class
C = Composite (First + Standard seating.)
RB = Coach contains a buffet
B = Coach with brake compartment, e.g. BSO. (Slowly becoming obsolete)
T = Third Class, when that existed.
K = Coach with interior side gangway + compartments (e.g. SK, BSK)
(was sometimes also used for Kitchen cars)
BG = Coach with brake compartment, remainder used only for parcels, freight, etc.
 

aleggatta

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other common ones:

(W) - Wheelchair space
C - Composite (normally identifies a coach with both first and standard class seating, sometimes they feature dividing partitions

Also common - 313's are often known as DMS and PTS vehicles, with no identifier of the 'open' status of the coach (sort of understandable when trains were moving to mainly open carriages with no compartments.

Wiki has a good list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_coach_designations
 

GusB

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C was used for Composite - K was used to signify Corridor (ie compartment) stock.
 

swt_passenger

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Some of the stock books (such as P5) try to use a particular convention for all, but the letters are sometimes in a slightly different order on a manufacturer’s coach end label.
As an example, Siemens Desiro UK has the O and S the other way round on the labels, eg on a 444 you have TOSL1 and TOSL2. But the basic meanings are the same.
 
Last edited:

43096

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Looking at the formation of a 319 for example:
DTSO+PMSO+MSOL+DTSO
I was trying to work out what each of the abbreviations means. Here are my assumptions so far, [??] being things I can't work out:

DTSO = Driving [??] Standard [??]
PMSO = Pantograph Motor Standard [??]
MSOL = Motor Standard [??] Lavatory
DTSO = Driving [??] Standard [??]

There are also other letters which we see in these. I'd like it if we could make this thread into a guide to what these mean. (Of course it's entirely possible that something like this already exists; if so please link to it).
A 319 doesn’t have two motor coaches, the MSOL should be TSOL.
 

AM9

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Oh dear... if you have a citation for that then you may wish to update Wikipedia, as that's where I took that information from!
I don't see that. The 319 wiki page correctly shows all sub classes as having either DTSO-MSO-TSO-DTSO or DTCO-MSO-TSO-DTSO.
 

hexagon789

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That's odd, I see this:View attachment 80939
Definitely only one motor car! Otherwise they would go like greased lightening rather than a limp snail (in modern terms, when they were introduced they would've been better than other EMUs of the time).

Looking at the formation of a 319 for example:
DTSO+PMSO+MSOL+DTSO
I was trying to work out what each of the abbreviations means. Here are my assumptions so far, [??] being things I can't work out:

DTSO = Driving [??] Standard [??]
PMSO = Pantograph Motor Standard [??]
MSOL = Motor Standard [??] Lavatory
DTSO = Driving [??] Standard [??]

There are also other letters which we see in these. I'd like it if we could make this thread into a guide to what these mean. (Of course it's entirely possible that something like this already exists; if so please link to it).
They are known as telegraphic codes, each of the Big 4 had their own system and British Rail adopted the LNER system. While coaches/MU cars continue be marked with these, officially they were replaced by TOPS CARKND codes in the 1980s, certainly the carriage working books change to them from about 1985.
 

swt_passenger

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That's odd, I see this:View attachment 80939
I think its a very complicated wiki page, there’s much duplication, but that right hand table’s formation section is different to the immediately following sections headed “diagram”, “fleet numbers” and “capacity”... Probably just mis-editing. Text sections on the left of the page also seem generally correct.
 

Merle Haggard

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There's one quirk of coding I don't understand. Stating the obvious, a restaurant is where you sit to eat, and a kitchen is where meals are prepared. These are coded 'R' and 'K' in coach designation codes.
However, Pendolino Coach K is coded 'DMRF'. It has a kitchen but this is not included in the code. When meals and snacks are served, it becomes a restaurant, agreed, but so do all the other first class coaches, which don't have an 'R' in the code.
Or maybe someone in the CM&EE just didn't know the difference...
 

ComUtoR

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We always say it differently to whats posted :/

DTOS
TOSL
MOS
PMOS
TOS B (Bike)
TOS W (Wheelchair)

"TOS" is always said together. Maybe its a regional quirk.
 

norbitonflyer

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Ah, Open. Is that some remnant from when trains had compartment stock and open-saloon stock in the same train for example? Would there have been C for Compartment?
K for corridor, as others have noted. Full width compartment (with no side corridor) was the default and thus had no code. Some EPB and HAP units had code "H" - presumably half? for vehicles which had part open and part compartment seating.
 

swt_passenger

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We always say it differently to whats posted :/

DTOS
TOSL
MOS
PMOS
TOS B (Bike)
TOS W (Wheelchair)

"TOS" is always said together. Maybe its a regional quirk.
Also is it possible that’s how the manufacturer codes them, (as per my earlier post about Siemens stock markings)?
 
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delt1c

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Some slight differences between units and hauled stock. On hauled stock TSO was Tourist open Standard 2+ seating. On Units TS is Trailer standard
 

driver9000

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K for corridor, as others have noted. Full width compartment (with no side corridor) was the default and thus had no code. Some EPB and HAP units had code "H" - presumably half? for vehicles which had part open and part compartment seating.
The H indicated "Half" on Southern units.
 

Driver2B

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Some of the stock books (such as P5) try to use a particular convention for all, but the letters are sometimes in a slightly different order on a manufacturer’s coach end label.
As an example, Siemens Desiro UK has the O and S the other way round on the labels, eg on a 444 you have TOSL1 and TOSL2. But the basic meanings are the same.
Yes, Siemens Desiro are labelled in a non-standard way:

444:
DMC1 (100) - TOSLW (300) - TOSL (400) - TOSLS (500) - DMC2 (200)
instead of the would-be-standard:
DMOC - TOSLW - TOSL - TOSL - DMOS
(yes, DMC2 isn't even composite!)

450:
DMC1 (100) - TOSLW (300) - TOSL (400) - DMC2 (200)
despite wherever first class has been moved to.
 

AM9

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That's odd, I see this:View attachment 80939
Below are attched pictures of the wikipedia page for the class;
the page header and introduction, (image 319_wiki_1.jpg)
the centre section of the page detailing the formation of the 319/0 and 319/1 subclasses that all subsequent sets were derived from, (image 319_wiki_2.jpg)
and the part of the data panel on the right-hand side of the page that also shows the formation. (image 319_wiki_3.jpg)
All description on the page clearly show just a single motor coach per unit, which indeed is the way that all class 319s have been to this day.

319_wiki_1.jpg319_wiki_2.jpg319_wiki_3.jpg
 

py_megapixel

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Below are attched pictures of the wikipedia page for the class;
the page header and introduction, (image 319_wiki_1.jpg)
the centre section of the page detailing the formation of the 319/0 and 319/1 subclasses that all subsequent sets were derived from, (image 319_wiki_2.jpg)
and the part of the data panel on the right-hand side of the page that also shows the formation. (image 319_wiki_3.jpg)
All description on the page clearly show just a single motor coach per unit, which indeed is the way that all class 319s have been to this day.
I am not attempting to disagree that there is only one motor coach in a 319!

I am merely saying that Wikipedia is wrong. I believe we are looking at different parts of the same page.
In any case, the incorrect section has now been updated by someone:
1595171191019.png
 

hexagon789

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There's one quirk of coding I don't understand. Stating the obvious, a restaurant is where you sit to eat, and a kitchen is where meals are prepared. These are coded 'R' and 'K' in coach designation codes.
However, Pendolino Coach K is coded 'DMRF'. It has a kitchen but this is not included in the code. When meals and snacks are served, it becomes a restaurant, agreed, but so do all the other first class coaches, which don't have an 'R' in the code.
Or maybe someone in the CM&EE just didn't know the difference...
Voyagers/Meridians are coded the same. I think it was supposed to reflect that it's a small galley rather than a full kitchen as in say an HST TRFB.
 

hexagon789

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Some of the stock books (such as P5) try to use a particular convention for all, but the letters are sometimes in a slightly different order on a manufacturer’s coach end label.
As an example, Siemens Desiro UK has the O and S the other way round on the labels, eg on a 444 you have TOSL1 and TOSL2. But the basic meanings are the same.
ScotRail 170s are the same DMOCL-MOS-DMOCL(W) on the data panels, yet my early 2000s Plat 5 books all omit the 'O's
 

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