Cash machines withdrawal?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Springs Branch, 3 Aug 2019.

  1. Springs Branch

    Springs Branch Member

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    Are cash dispensers on the way out?

    Just got back from my local shops. While there I went to get cash for the weekend, but the spot where the cashpoint used to be (and where 12 months ago there was a choice of machines for two different banks) is freshly boarded up, and there are now no cash dispensers in what is quite a busy & prosperous centre.

    Another shopping centre I visit used to have three cash machines, now has only one. And in the city centre I've noticed several handy hole-in-the-wall locations have had the facility removed.

    This is in Australia, where there's been enthusiastic take-up of contactless card & smartphone NFC technology - to the extent some shops seem surprised when someone offers cash for payment - so it makes sense less cash is being dispensed.

    Looks like we've already passed "peak cashpoint" and maybe there are scrapyards somewhere filling up with redundant machines.

    Anyone noticed a similar trend with disappearing cash machines in the UK?

    And is the handy cashpoint going the way of payphones and local pubs to become few & far between?
     
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  3. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    There is. Leeds station has seen around four dissappear during the refurbishment. I suspect that some elements of big business would rather move us towards a cashless society.
     
  4. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    The provision of cash machines has been in the news in the UK in recent months. The body that operates the cash machine network (Link) decided to change the fees they pay machine owners/operators per transaction, apparently in response to "changing useage patterns", a.k.a. fewer people using them. They decided to reduce the flat fee in built-up areas where there was over-provision of cash machines, and increase it in rural locations where cash machines are few and far between. Unsurprisingly, many machine operators complained about the change in their revenue streams, claiming that this would force them to close well-patronised cash machines.

    (UK cardholders aren't usually charged for cash machine transactions, unless the machine operator chooses to do so, so the transaction fee from Link is the main source of income. Those machines that charge are of couse unpopular with the public, and don't get much repeat business. They're mainly found in one-off areas, such as festival fields, where people have little in the way of alternatives to choose from.)
     
  5. thejuggler

    thejuggler Member

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    In the UK a lot of machines are now being replaced by generic Note machine cashpoints, rather than specific ones for the bank.

    Just like bank branches and post offices if they don't get used they close. I don't use cash unless I have no choice and any business which refuses cards is writing its own death warrant.
     
  6. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Yep on the way out.

    I need to use a cash machine perhaps every other month now, and there’s never a queue.
     
  7. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    25 years ago I was advocating the placing of an ATM in a building within Sheffield University Students Union. If memory serves correctly they wanted £50,000pa rental! That was about the peak, and they didn't get it, but that wasn't far short of what one of the banks did pay. A far cry from the early 1970s when you'd only find 1 or 2 machines in a large city.

    Since then the march of debit cards and other electronic payment methods means cash use is in very sharp decline. It will be needed for the foreseeable future, but ATMs are costly to maintain even without rental.

    I heard railway locations were asking for rentals in the same region as above at that time. Then the banks were happy to see their name out there. Now they don't seem so bothered. In some locations they've become a liability for shops when a JCB has been driven in to take the machine. It's caused the long term closure of more than one shop.

    Fewer of the machines that remain will be free.

    As an aside, until 1971 we had to pay 2d stamp duty on every cheque we wrote. If we had to pay 2p tax today on every card and electronic payment it would raise a lot of money - and quite a stink!
     
  8. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Compared to the £1.50 transaction fee some cashpoints charge, 2p seems like a bargain.
     
  9. PeterC

    PeterC Established Member

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    For the big boys cash is a liability. For small business and individuals the ability to give and receive cash means that the banks don't get a cut.

    When cash ceases to be a viable alternative I think that "free" banking will be at risk.
     
  10. underbank

    underbank Established Member

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    I have a number of small shops, B&Bs, cafes etc as clients - I do their "books". The average is currently 50:50 between cash and card, so it will be quite a long time yet before the end of cash, especially for small purchases in small businesses where the "per transaction" card charges can be quite steep. Even for businesses small enough not to be registered for VAT, their monthly bank/card charges can be hundreds of pounds per month which is a real drain on their profits.
     
  11. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    Don't tell the Chancellor or he'll be planning a new tax to pay for all the promises they're now making.
     
  12. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Inflation would make it about 15p abd that would soon add up.
     
  13. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    My local town has gone from 4 to 2 in the last few years. One was in a Barclays Bank which went when the branch closed down (circa 2014, though I doesn't feel that it was so long ago!). The other was in a NatWest branch which survived beyond the closure of the bank, but was removed a year or so back as, allegedly, they were having problems with mice! Neither were far from the local railway station (and on my usual walk to it) so they were both handy

    The remaining ones are at another bank at the opposite side of town and another in the local Co-op (inside the store so only accessible when the store is open)
     
  14. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Penzance has been fortunate in retaining so many - one each outside Nat West and Barclays, two each outside HSBC and Lloyds, an RBS one outside Tesco Express and one inside the Co-op. ,There might be one outside Santander as well: all within about a quarter mile of each other. Go out of town to the main supermarkets, three RBS ones outside Tesco, two each outside Sainsbury and Morrisons. Probably holidaymakers account for some of these.
     
  15. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    That's pretty good going. Conwy (slightly smaller, but also drawing tourists) has lost all its banks, and is down to a choice of the Post Office or a telephone-box-fitted cash machine.
     
  16. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    Or that a cashless society is more convenient for everyone.
    Contactless cards are much more convenient and faster than cash, very rarely do I spend money in cash.
     
  17. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    Apart from criminals and tax-dodgers.

    I'm anti-cash, but there was a big backward step this year when MP's decided to continue with the pointless 1p's, 2p's and 5p's. How much metal and time is wasted daily bothering with those pointless coins?
     
  18. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Having had various bank cards fail, and need to be replaced over several working days, I like the security of having both options. Also, cash is better for anything under £5.
     
  19. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Two cards? And, I disagree about cash being better for anything under £5. A quick ‘beep’ is so much easier than fiddling about with change (either or both myself and the vendor).
     
  20. underbank

    underbank Established Member

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    It wasn't very convenient after Storm Desmond when our entire town/city was without electricity nor mobile phone coverage. The poor sods without cash were left at the mercy of charitable pubs for a roof over their heads as they had no cash for taxis nor public transport to get home. Others couldn't buy the meagre supplies left in the few shops that could open that were cash only.
     
  21. underbank

    underbank Established Member

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    For less than a fiver, any profit made by the shop on the goods you've bought will be less than the card fees - that's why most shops have minimum spend on cards.
     
  22. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    It may not be true today but about 3 years ago a Northern employee told me it cost them as much for processing the transaction as they charged for a single ticket to my next station.

    However, since the rollout of contactless it may be possible for traders to get effectively better terms for smaller transactions, depending on total turnover with cards.
     
  23. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    That’s rubbish. Debit card fees for the merchant are around 0.2% plus 2p per transaction authorisation. Credit card fees can be up to 2% (+2p). If you are a shop selling most of your wares at a margin of less than 2%, then you won’t be in business very long.

    It’s been a long time since I saw anywhere that had a minimum limit on card transactions. I didn’t realise this was still a thing.
     
  24. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    I do so hate having a statement full of £2 and £3 transactions though.
     
  25. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Whilst the number of free machines has started to fall since 2017, there are still 76% more free machines available now as there were 20 years ago, and 21% more than there were 10 years ago. Including fee charging machines, there are more than twice as many as there were in 1999.

    https://www.link.co.uk/about/statistics-and-trends/

    I've always been puzzled by the use of cash. I've been using cards almost exclusively since 1991 when I got my first Switch card.
     
  26. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    Curious these statistics. It lists Lloyds as having 2170 Branch ATMs. That includes mutiple machines at some branches as they claim to have a network of over 1100 branches across England and Wales.

    However it also says they have no remote ATMs free to use. I rarely use an ATM (I mostly go contactless, exceptionally at my local Sainsbury's or Tesco's) but I'm sure my nearby BP filling station has a Lloyds free Cashpoint.
     
  27. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    I know you inhabit a very different part of England from me, but I think you probably don't use your card(s) in many small shops, because most down my way either have a minimum transaction (varying between £5 and £10 usually, though I know one where it's £12) or charge a small fee (35p to 50p) for anything under those amounts. My own personal experience as a small shopkeeper, admittedly ending about three years ago, was that Nat West Streamline were charging me the same 35p per credit card transaction as they'd been doing for about twenty years! I could probably have got better terms, but sometimes better to stick with your own bank, particularly if you've been for some reason their unlikely 'poster boy' when the system was in its infancy decades ago!
     
  28. Typhoon

    Typhoon Member

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    Drop in branch ATMs almost certainly reflects the number of branches that have closed.
     
  29. geoffk

    geoffk Established Member

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    I've always been puzzled by the use of cards for small purchases like a cup of coffee or a newspaper. I always use cash for small purchases, certainly up to £20, and card for weekly shopping and petrol; I don't do much on-line shopping. There are two ATMs, both free, in my large village/town. In the last two weeks I've used my credit card six times and debit card twice. I'm 72, by the way.
     
  30. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    It costs more to pay in cash because you forgo any cashback or points or other bonus you would have earned if you had used the card.
     
  31. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Bought a bread roll today in one (small) local shop. 35p.
    Pint of milk yesterday. Different (even smaller) local shop. 50p.
    Jam doughnut today. Independent bakers. 80p.
    Half a lager in the pub (independent) last night. £2.60.
    Half hour car parking this morning. 60p.

    All contactless. None with any minimum limit.

    I use all sorts of small shops and food/drink establishments - chains and independent. All take cards, and none have a minimum limit. I have no need for cash now. Genuinely - I can’t remember the last shop I went to that didn’t take cards or did with a minimum limit. Certainly nowhere this year.

    Now I would say that perhaps this is a South East thing ... but I was in a fairly remote part of Scotland a couple of months back and it was the same there - everywhere took cards, none had minimum limits. Also the same when I was in the North East a few weeks ago. And the East Midlands (amongst other things, I paid for a £2.50 ice cream from an ice cream van on contactless). Also the same in the West Midlands - the football team I support has gone cashless for the refreshment stalls as of last week - ie cash is not accepted.

    Now I’m not say saying that there aren’t places that have minimum limits. However it’s pretty clear to me that those places that do will need to change their arrangements or lose business.
     

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