Caught today fare evading London Victoria-Greenhithe

[caughttoday]

Your original post says "I have been doing this since March".

Best to get everything clear in your head make sure what you say is consistent.

Yes as I was posting this, initially I thought I started this on March (because that’s what I recall). But after reviewing my app, that’s when it showed that I actually started it in November 2022.

 

[Hadders]

I think it would be best to honest and write to them what really happened and what tickets you had and how long you’ve been doing it? As i presume you were cautioned before being questioned? And if you were not fully honest, when it comes to them looking into your purchase histories and checking If gates were closed at Victoria which can be as easy as looking at the ‘station control unit’ data for the gates or even sending the manager an email, I imagine they are a lot less likely to settle out of court.
Anyone disagree?

It's important to be truthful when the OP replies to the questions in the letter but they are not required to incriminate, and I would not recommend, they incriminate themselves.

 

[Edsmith]

I'm surprised it's taken this long to get caught if I'm honest; Greenhithe is a favourite haunt of Southeastern inspectors as they can pot the irregular passengers trying to go to Bluewater on an Oyster card.

it is really up to yourself, though I think train company investigators look here far less than people think.

I'm not surprised at all, this line is rife with fare evasion and anti social behaviour.

For what it's worth, I am familiar with London Victoria station and the relevant ticket gates are in operation at most times that trains are operating, though not absolutely all.

I've seen the gates on the SouthEastern side open, or at least some of them, on numerous occasions, same at most SouthEastern stations.

 

[caughttoday]

Hello,

I already received the letter from Southeastern, and below is the content:


Reference: xxxxxxxx

xx July 2023

Dear xxxxxxxx


On xx Jul 2023 a person giving the above name and address was questioned by a member of rail staff with regard to an alleged incident on Southeastern. The matter has been provisionally authorized for prosecution.

Before I proceed further, I invite you to respond by completing in full the bottom section of this letter, making any comments about the incident on the reverse, and send it to the above address within seven days.

Failure to respond will lead to the matter being progressed without further notification.

Signed

On behalf of of the Prosecutions Manager.

 

[AlterEgo]

You should respond as @Hadders suggests in post 6, and deal ONLY with the incident they ask about, on the xx July 2023.

 

[caughttoday]

As suggested in this forum to keep reply short and concise, below is my draft response:

Hello,

Reference: XXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated on xx July 2023,

I hope my response reaches you well.

I would like to apologise for what I did wrong on xx July 2023, wherein I was stopped by a railway staff who examined my ticket.

At the time and date stated, I did have a ticket which I provided and showed to the officer; however, it was not for my full journey. It was a lapse in my judgment to purchase this ticket, realising I made a bad decision, and will not be doing the same again.

I am sorry to have caused you time and trouble in handling this matter. I know it is my responsibility to always purchase the correct ticket for my journey.

I have learned a lot from this situation and have taken all the necessary steps to ensure this does not happen again. I now purchase my season ticket, and I will be doing this consistently.

I humbly ask that you consider settling this matter outside of court. I am happy to pay the outstanding fare and any penalties plus the administrative costs incurred in processing my case.

I will be extremely grateful if you accept this, and again, I am sorry and apologise sincerely for my actions.

Yours truly,

XXXXXXXX

Any suggestions/corrections from you are greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Huntergreed]

As suggested in this forum to keep reply short and concise, below is my draft response:

Hello,

Reference: XXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated on xx July 2023,

I hope my response reaches you well.

I would like to apologise for what I did wrong on xx July 2023, wherein I was stopped by a railway staff who examined my ticket.

At the time and date stated, I did have a ticket which I provided and showed to the officer; however, it was not for my full journey I purchased a ticket which did not cover my entire journey . It was a lapse in my judgment to purchase this ticket, realising I have realised I made a bad decision, and will not be doing the same again.

I am sorry to have caused you time and trouble in handling this matter. I know it is my responsibility to always purchase the correct ticket for my journey and will ensure I do this going forward .

I have learned a lot from this situation and have taken all the necessary steps to ensure this does not happen again. I now purchase my season ticket, and I will be doing this consistently.

I humbly ask that you consider settling this matter outside of court. I am happy to pay the outstanding fare and any penalties plus the administrative costs incurred in processing my case.

I will be extremely grateful if you accept this, and again, Once again, I am sorry and apologise sincerely for my actions and would be grateful for the opportunity to settle the matter out of court .

Yours truly faithfully ,

XXXXXXXX

Any suggestions/corrections from you are greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Personally, I would amend as above.

Tagging @Hadders @Watershed as they're probably best placed to advise you on this!

 

[AlterEgo]

As suggested in this forum to keep reply short and concise, below is my draft response:

Hello,

Reference: XXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated on xx July 2023,

I hope my response reaches you well.

I would like to apologise for what I did wrong on xx July 2023, wherein I was stopped by a member of railway staff who examined my ticket.

At the time and date stated, I did have a ticket which I provided and showed to the officer; however, it was not for my full journey. It was a lapse in my judgment to purchase this ticket, realising and I realise I made a bad decision, and will not be doing the same again.

I am sorry to have caused you time and trouble in handling this matter. I know it is my responsibility to always purchase the correct ticket for my journey

I have learned a lot from this situation and In addition, I have taken all the necessary steps to ensure this does not happen again. I now purchase my a season ticket, and I will be doing this consistently.

I humbly ask that you consider settling this matter outside of court. I am happy to pay the outstanding fare and any penalties plus the administrative costs incurred in processing my case.

I will be extremely grateful if you accept this, and again, I am sorry and apologise sincerely for my actions.

Yours truly,

XXXXXXXX

Pretty good. Just a few edits for style and so it's not a wall of "I am/I did" and i think you are good to go. May be worth attaching proof of purchase of your season ticket as well to bolster your case.

 

[Llanigraham]

I'd also drop the second line "I hope my response reaches you well."
It is meaningless and adds nothing.

 

[caughttoday]

Pretty good. Just a few edits for style and so it's not a wall of "I am/I did" and i think you are good to go. May be worth attaching proof of purchase of your season ticket as well to bolster your cas

I'd also drop the second line "I hope my response reaches you well."
It is meaningless and adds nothing.

Thank you for all the suggestions. Yes, I will attach a proof of purchase for my season ticket.

I am planning to send this tomorrow to the post office. Is it okay to just print out my response instead of writing it on the reverse of the letter?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Is it okay to just print out my response instead of writing it on the reverse of the letter?

Printing it is good, especially if you don't have good handwriting. But if you do that
- make sure you include all the references from the letter on the piece of paper that you send, and
- send back the letter as well but where they ask you to write, put 'Please see attached '.

 

[caughttoday]

Printing it is good, especially if you don't have good handwriting. But if you do that
- make sure you include all the references from the letter on the piece of paper that you send, and
- send back the letter as well but where they ask you to write, put 'Please see attached '.

Yes I will staple them all together. The original letter from southeastern, my printed reply, and a copy of my proof of purchase of a season ticket.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Yes I will staple them all together. The original letter from southeastern, my printed reply, and a copy of my proof of purchase of a season ticket.

That's a good idea. But still put the details on every page - staples don't always work!

 

[Hadders]

I think the letter with the amendments suggested is good. I wouldn’t mention the season ticket as that could be a red flag that you regularly make this journey, and you don’t want them to research your online purchasing history.

It’s perfectly acceptable to print it out, make sure the case reference number is on it and don’t forget to sign the letter.

I’d post it Royal Mail 1st class ‘Signed For’ which means there will be proof that the letter has been delivered. The Post Office will try and sell you Special Delivery which costs a lot more - you don’t need this as there’s nothing of any value in the letter.

 

[caughttoday]

I think the letter with the amendments suggested is good. I wouldn’t mention the season ticket as that could be a red flag that you regularly make this journey, and you don’t want them to research your online purchasing history.

It’s perfectly acceptable to print it out, make sure the case reference number is on it and don’t forget to sign the letter.

I’d post it Royal Mail 1st class ‘Signed For’ which means there will be proof that the letter has been delivered. The Post Office will try and sell you Special Delivery which costs a lot more - you don’t need this as there’s nothing of any value in the letter.

Thank you @Hadders , I removed the season ticket from the draft letter.

Yes I will post it as 1st class signed for.

@AlterEgo I am having difficulty with your amendment suggestions about the "I am/I did" - Sorry I cannot find any alternatives to replace it with. I am happy for you if you can alter it with what you think would be a suitable replacement?

Anyway, below is the edited version of my first draft basing on all your suggestions:

Hello,

Reference: XXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated on xx July 2023,

I would like to apologise for what I did wrong on xx July 2023, wherein I was stopped by a railway staff who examined my ticket.

At the time and date stated, I did have a ticket which I provided and showed to the officer; however, it was not for my full journey. It was a lapse in my judgment to purchase this ticket, realising I made a bad decision, and will not be doing the same again.

I am sorry to have caused you time and trouble in handling this matter. I know it is my responsibility to always purchase the correct ticket for my journey.

I have learned a lot from this situation and have taken all the necessary steps to ensure this does not happen again. I now purchase the appropriate ticket for my journey and will be doing this consistently.

I humbly ask that you consider settling this matter outside of court. I am happy to pay the outstanding fare and any penalties plus the administrative costs incurred in processing my case.

I will be extremely grateful if you accept this, and again, I am sorry and apologise sincerely for my actions.

Yours truly,

XXXXXXXX

 

[AlterEgo]

@AlterEgo I am having difficulty with your amendment suggestions about the "I am/I did" - Sorry I cannot find any alternatives to replace it with. I am happy for you if you can alter it with what you think would be a suitable replacement?

I'm saying I made a couple of alterations for you in the text to avoid every sentence starting with it, I wasn't suggesting you make further changes. Hope that clears it up.

 

[Titfield]

That's a good idea. But still put the details on every page - staples don't always work!

Yes because many companies scan post on arrival which means that stapled items are separated.

 

[caughttoday]

I'm saying I made a couple of alterations for you in the text to avoid every sentence starting with it, I wasn't suggesting you make further changes. Hope that clears it up.

I see what you mean. Thank you.

Yes because many companies scan post on arrival which means that stapled items are separated.

Oh I didn’t know this. Thanks for this info.

 

[SteveM70]

Yes I will staple them all together. The original letter from southeastern, my printed reply, and a copy of my proof of purchase of a season ticket.

Make sure you keep copies of what you send them, including their letter to you if you're sending them back the original

 

[caughttoday]

Make sure you keep copies of what you send them, including their letter to you if you're sending them back the original

yes I have thanks

Getting anxious again. The letter sent to me asked me to respond within 7 days. It was dated on the 19th of July, and I received it on the 21st. Sent them the reply on the 22nd via Royal Mail 1st class signed for. It is now the 28th, and the tracking still says the post office has it. I went to the post office yesterday to ask, however, the lady said that since it's a 1st class signed for, It cannot be tracked, but only see the update once received by the recipient.

What should I do now?

 

[caughttoday]

Hello,

I posted in July 2023 about fare evasion I’ve done. I can’t seem to reply to that thread anymore.

Anyway, I sent them the letter of apology, asking for out of court settlement (the usual advice from the forum), and have not heard anything.

It’s going to be almost a year from the incident. Am I in the clear now??? Or is it normally this long?

Btw this is with Southeastern

Thanks!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,

I posted in July 2023 about fare evasion I’ve done. I can’t seem to reply to that thread anymore.

Anyway, I sent them the letter of apology, asking for out of court settlement (the usual advice from the forum), and have not heard anything.

It’s going to be almost a year from the incident. Am I in the clear now??? Or is it normally this long?

Btw this is with Southeastern

Thanks!

I'd be concerned about this - it would not be usual for them to not respond to your letter and tell you one way or the other what was going to happen and this would not take a year.

I fear there is a risk that you could have been taken to court without you knowing it - which would mean problems for you - you need to check this out I think.

Seems very unlikely to me that you would not either have been asked to pay a settlement or been told they were still taking it to court.

See what others think but I'd be contacting SE Trains prosecutions unit - did you keep copies of the old paperwork and your reply?

You can report your old thread and ask the mods to re-open it - which may help.

 

[caughttoday]

I took a photo of their letter, and my response to them.

I sent them an email back in August, twice, but not received any reply either.

I am going to apply overseas and will require police clearance at some point and this is what I fear if it’s in my record.

I had a police check back in October 2023 (part of my overseas application) and this was clear.

I completely forgot about this. I sent them another email today.

 

[island]

Might be worth checking with Bexley Magistrates Court (where Southeastern do most of their prosecutions) to establish if there has been a case held in your name.

 

[greatkingrat]

Have you changed address since the original incident?

 

[caughttoday]

Still the same address

Should I contact a solicitor by now?

 

[WesternLancer]

Still the same address

Should I contact a solicitor by now?

Not sure I'd contact a solicitor yet - you need to find out what SE trains did - or did not do - the problem is that wakes them up if they genuinely did nothing but now decide to take action. It's depending on what they did that would help you decide if you should contact a solicitor or not.

You could start contacting the court as suggested above, Bexley Magistrates Court - as that would mean that you did not wake ip SE Trains, but it's not definitive as SE Trains might use other courts too

I'm no expert on this but looks like some info here on how you can check your own record - which might be a start as a way of finding out if you got taken to court without knowing (if that did happen there is a process knowns as Statutory Declaration which is supposed to 're-set the clock' which would get the matter re-opened with SE Trains I think)

Finding out about your criminal record - Unlock

Aim of this information Finding out what’s on your criminal record will assist you when it comes to dealing with employers and other organisations (for example insurance companies). Once you have this information you will be able to work out if your convictions are spent or filtered, thereby...

unlock.org.uk

 

[caughttoday]

Called the magistrates office. There is nothing in their records.

I’m really puzzled at what’s going on here.

I managed to talk to the prosecution pay office for southeastern, but the lady at the other end of the line seemed to be holding off some information from me, or maybe she’s just not authorised to provide sensitive information?

She gave me the same email (which I emailed before last August), and I explained to her that they never replied. She still insisted to send them another email about my case.

So I’ve sent another email to the prosecutions team and hopefully they get back to me this time.

My previous suppressed anxiety is starting to come back.

 

[WesternLancer]

Called the magistrates office. There is nothing in their records.

I’m really puzzled at what’s going on here.

I managed to talk to the prosecution pay office for southeastern, but the lady at the other end of the line seemed to be holding off some information from me, or maybe she’s just not authorised to provide sensitive information?

She gave me the same email (which I emailed before last August), and I explained to her that they never replied. She still insisted to send them another email about my case.

So I’ve sent another email to the prosecutions team and hopefully they get back to me this time.

My previous suppressed anxiety is starting to come back.

It is hard to know what else you can do really. Quite frustrating.

 

[AlterEgo]

If they haven’t prosecuted you by now they are out of time. Don’t let them talk you into settling if that’s the case, as there is nothing to settle.