Caught Using a 11-15 card

[2019292]

I’m a 18 years old Sixth form student who does have a 16-18 card however I lost it in December so I put it as inactive and then I found it broken couple weeks ago.
I started to use my brothers 11-15 card for about couple days now to go to the library because I really needed to study for my alevel exams. I didn’t see a huge problem with this as they’re both free to use.
PS: I did not use the card from December to now and I did try to order a card couple days ago but I used the wrong web address and now have reapplied for the Oyster card.

Today I was approached by a TFL officer and she took the oyster and my details and said there will be a letter coming.

I’ve heard that you can get a criminal offence etc and honestly I’m just looking for any advice regarding this especially since my exam is in 2 days and I don’t want to be worrying about this.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum!

The worst that can happen is that TfL will take you to court and prosecute you. That sounds dreadful, but if they do prosecute and win, then the punishment will be a fine and various costs: you won't be going to prison.

It will also take them a few days to get in touch with you. So it's unlikely that they will write to you before your exam. But even if they do write to you immediately, they will also allow you a week or two to get back to them.

So for the moment, relax about TfL and concentrate on your exam. Once your exam is out of the way, you will need to reply promptly to TfL (they don't take being ignored very well) - but that is quite literally a problem for another day.

 

[2019292]

so it’s very expensive

 

[Haywain]

I’m just looking for any advice regarding this especially since my exam is in 2 days and I don’t want to be worrying about this.

For now, concentrate on your exam and put this out of your mind. It will probably take at least a week or two before you hear anything from (presumably) TfL, and there is very little you can do before then.

 

[30907]

so it’s very expensive

Possibly - if you get found guilty in a court, it might end up costing around £400 altogether; if not, you might have to pay an administrative settlement which is typically under £150; or you might convince them to issue a warning because of the circumstances.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Firstly, try and out this to the back of your mind for now and concentrate on your exam.

Secondly, TfL will send you a verification letter asking you to admit or deny what happened and to provide any mitigation. It’s important to reply to this timely and that you give a good explanation about what happened.

Technically you have committed an offence by using your brother’s Zip Oyster card and TfL normally take a dim view of this sort of thing. TfL could prosecute you in the Magistrates Court, but they also might decide to give you a formal warning. Unlike National Rail train companies TfL don’t normally offer out of court settlements.

Feel free to post a copy of the verification letter in this thread (with personal details redacted), along with your draft reply, and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[2019292]

Thank you for all the advice.
Much appreciated.

Additional question about worse case scenario, if they set me a court date and I am unable to attend due an exam what happens?

 

[Hadders]

Thank you for all the advice.
Much appreciated.

Additional question about worse case scenario, if they set me a court date and I am unable to attend due an exam what happens?

You’re highly unlikely to have to go to court in person. Normally issues like this are dealt with using what is called the Single Justice Procedure Notice where, if you plead guilty, the matter is dealt with my a Magistrate based on the paperwork. You are notified of the decision by post.

 

[2019292]

You’re highly unlikely to have to go to court in person. Normally issues like this are dealt with using what is called the Single Justice Procedure Notice where, if you plead guilty, the matter is dealt with my a Magistrate based on the paperwork. You are notified of the decision by post.

Will I receive a criminal offence in the worst case?

 

[Hadders]

Will I receive a criminal offence in the worst case?

If you are prosecuted under the Bylaws and plead guilty and are found guilty by the court then this is a criminal conviction.

The court will usually impose a fine as a punishment and you will normally have to pay compensation for the fare avoided, a Victim surcharge and court costs.

A Bylaw conviction isn’t normally entered into the Police National Computer and ordinarily won’t show up on a Standard or Enhanced DBS check. That said it is always best to be honest about this sort of thing if you are asked and a conviction for what, in the grand scheme of things, is a minor railway ticketing offence should not adversely impact future employment prospects.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Thank you for all the advice.
Much appreciated.

Additional question about worse case scenario, if they set me a court date and I am unable to attend due an exam what happens?

Highly unlikely that any court date would be within the next month (which is when most Year 13 exams happen). If it did create a clash speak to both your school and the court as it is highly likely one of the two could be altered.

 

[2019292]

Hello, I have received my letter, can anyone please help me understand it?
thank you

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hello, I have received my letter, can anyone please help me understand it?
thank you

For now, the important bit is the bit in bold that says you need to reply within ten days. So you've got time to do your exam tomorrow without worrying about this letter. Then come back to us afterwards and we'll talk you through it so that you can reply in the time allowed.

 

[2019292]

okay thank you

Hello, can anyone please give me any feedback to improve this?

I have looked at other posts on a similar matter and this is going to be posted in another forum so I can get a very diverse opinion of this.

I am thinking of attaching the proof that I ordered the card and my exam timetable to show that I wasn't lying and that I am changing. Can anyone tell me if this is a good idea as I have seen others do it.



To whom it may concern,

I firstly would like to apologise for my actions on 17/05/2023 and the time I have wasted of who is reading this. While there is no excuse for my behaviour I would like to thank TFL for allowing me to explain it.
I was very stressed out that day due to my A-Level exam that will happen on the 19th, I decided to leave the house to go to another place to cool down previously I had a 16-18 oyster however I found it broken a couple of days prior to the offence when I was cleaning up my room. Without thinking and feeling the pressure of stress I took my brother's oyster under the impression I wasn’t committing such a serious offence since my card was also free however that does not excuse my behaviour and now have learnt to never ever attempt to use another oyster other than myself. The days after my offence I have spent ashamed and very upset since I never have had a conviction nor been in trouble like this ever.
While this does not rectify my behaviour I applied for an Oyster card straight away after the offence took place and did have to call customer service prior to applying due to an issue with the account.
I know this does not begin to justify my behaviour and there is no excuse I should be punished but please do not give me a criminal conviction as this will affect my future in the pharmaceutical/medical field I will pursue this year. I am happy to take a fine regarding my inexcusable behaviour and will make sure to spread my story to others so they do not make the same mistake.
Please forgive my actions.

Thank you

Edited it a little and I also forgot to mention that I lost the oyster in December and I put it as inactive but then found it afterward.

do you think that is necessary to write because I think it would be in my records for tfl

To whom it may concern,

I firstly would like to apologise for my actions on 17/05/2023 and the time I have wasted of who is reading this. While there is no excuse for my behaviour I would like to thank TFL for allowing me to explain it.
I was very stressed out that day due to my A-Level exam that will happen on the 19th, I decided to leave the house to go to another place to cool down previously I had a 16-18 oyster however I found it broken a couple of days prior to the offence when I was cleaning up my room. Without thinking and feeling the pressure of stress I took my brother's oyster under the impression I wasn’t committing such a serious offence since my card was also free however that does not excuse my behaviour and now have learnt to never ever attempt to use another oyster other than myself. The days after my offence I have spent ashamed and very upset since I never have had a conviction nor been in trouble like this ever. While this does not rectify my behaviour I applied for an Oyster card straight away after the offence took place and did have to call customer service prior to applying due to an issue with the account.
I know this does not begin to justify my behaviour and there is no excuse I should be punished but please do not give me a criminal conviction as this will affect my future in the pharmaceutical/medical field I will pursue this year.
I know this does not begin to justify my behaviour and there is no excuse I should be punished but please do not give me a criminal conviction as this will affect my future in the pharmaceutical/medical field I will pursue this year. If it is possible to pay the outstanding fare and additional costs, please allow me to do this. As well as I will make sure to spread my story to others so they do not make the same mistake.
Please forgive me
Thank you

 

[Haywain]

The second version is better.

 

[2019292]

Any more tips before I send off?

 

[furlong]

If you have the NUMBER of the Oyster card that is rightfully yours mention that when you mention the card.

HOWEVER what type is it exactly? 18+ Student? Or were you still on (the last months of) a 16+ Zip?

You say it also gave you free travel. Is that because it has a paid-for travelcard on it? Or were you caught on a bus and had you not used it on the underground?

It is crucial to explain to them exactly why you believe you were entitled to "free" travel with the card that was "broken" and then what you have done to put this right. Is the new card you have applied for a replacement of exactly the same type of card, or is it a new different type of card? Again, is there a reference number you can give them for the application?

 

[2019292]

I mentioned all of that except the bus fare being free. I was caught in a bus. I ended up sending it last night.

I attached my time table, application confirmation for the replacement.
My card was 16+
I didn’t write the bus fare being free.
I thought they had that info when the lady wrote it down.

 

[furlong]

Sorry, this being a rail forum I wrongly assumed it was a rail journey, but then I began to wonder. It makes sense now. Also, they are more limited in terms of what action they can take when it was "just" a bus. (The draconian railway laws do not apply.)

 

[pedr]

Doesn’t TfL have bus bylaws which are very similar to the railway bylaws, though?

 

[furlong]

Doesn’t TfL have bus bylaws which are very similar to the railway bylaws, though?

No. Completely different legislation that most notably explicitly allows for a 'reasonable excuse' defence and needs a bit of cherry picking to encompass Oyster. The approach would depend on whether or not the pass was touched in when boarding, whether it was first presented with the inspector challenging it or whether the passenger explained first, what notices were displayed on the bus, whether another opportunity to pay the fare was offered etc.

 

[2019292]

yes

Hello, I haven't received any updates however my brother did receive this letter.
Can someone please help me understand the letter and the repercussions my brother may face due to my behaviour.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

yes

Hello, I haven't received any updates however my brother did receive this letter.
Can someone please help me understand the letter and the repercussions my brother may face due to my behaviour.

Essentially, TfL want to know if your brother let you use his Zip Oyster. If he did, then he's in trouble as well as you: if he didn't then they may want to know how you got hold of it.

So neither position is brilliant. The only suggestion I can give is that the response is honest about what happened. If you /your brother didn't understand how serious it was to use someone else's Zip Oyster, then say that.

I would guess that there's a separate letter to you on its way. So it's probably worth waiting a couple of days so that both letters from TfL can be replied to at the same time.

 

[2019292]

i received only one letter which was asking if I admit or deny the offence.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

i received only one letter which was asking if I admit or deny the offence.

Sorry - my mistake. I'd forgotten that. In which case, it remains important for a reply to go for your brother's letter - and my advice is that the response should be truthful. Since your orginal reply will also have been truthful, there won't be any confusion about the responses contradicting each other.

 

[2019292]

hypothetically can I get a theft charge if I took the oyster without my brother knowing?

 

[furlong]

hypothetically can I get a theft charge if I took the oyster without my brother knowing?

No - that doesn't happen in these situations. I think we can assume you were only borrowing it, can't we? In law, theft requires an intention of permanently depriving the owner. Amongst other things, they would have to prove you intended not to return it, which they'd struggle to do unless you admitted that or you'd deliberately destroyed and discarded it - so theft wouldn't normally be considered. (Caveat: This doesn't apply here, but if the Oyster card had credit on it that was spent, then you might be able to say the owner had been permanently deprived of that value. Also if you kept it long enough preventing him from using it when he needed to so he had to buy tickets.) You can read a summary of the law here - https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/theft-act-offences

 

[2019292]

for my brothers letter
this is a draft

To whom this may concern,
I (father name) will be writing on behalf of (brother name) because he is a child. I firstly would like to apologise for my older sons behaviour while he was in a stressed out state nevertheless he did commit a offence even if he didn’t know it was one.
On 17th May 2023 (brother name) was not aware that his older brother used his card until after he came home from school. (My name) was home because he’s on study leave for his exams. (Brother name) left his oyster on the table. He didn’t take it to school because he had a bike injury. He was dropped and picked up in car by his mother.

I'm not really sure what else we can write. my parents and sister said to ask for any more feedback before they send it off

 

[Fawkes Cat]

for my brothers letter
this is a draft

To whom this may concern,
I (father name) will be writing on behalf of (brother name) because he is a child. I firstly would like to apologise for my older sons behaviour while he was in a stressed out state nevertheless he did commit a offence even if he didn’t know it was one.
On 17th May 2023 (brother name) was not aware that his older brother used his card until after he came home from school. (My name) was home because he’s on study leave for his exams. (Brother name) left his oyster on the table. He didn’t take it to school because he had a bike injury. He was dropped and picked up in car by his mother.

I'm not really sure what else we can write. my parents and sister said to ask for any more feedback before they send it off

There's a little time left to respond, so you might want to wait for other comments. But I think that's fine. It demonstrates that your brother was not at fault and so TfL have no further reason to consider whether he had any involvement in the matter.

 

[2019292]

they said my brother has 2 weeks to reply