Caught Using My Son's Oyster

[shell07]

Hello can someone help me with my situation,

Last saturday, I was stopped by the railway police at liverpool station using my son's zip card.

Just a backround we re new here in the uk 1 year to be exact and dont have enough knowledge on the rules and regulation, my friend help us in getting this zip card of my son, they also said we can use this because we are family and that they are also using theirs sons card for months.

We have been using this card for 2 mos. Sometimes just me alone sometimes with my son. The officer who stopped me get my address, name and birthday and was told that I will receive a letter from tfl also confiscated my son's card. No other paper was given to me on the spot.
He just ask where im coming and where i am going.

I was really scared of this situation. We know i am at fault for not have to know the terms and condition of the card.

Btw i am on dependent visa my husband is a skilled worker visa.

Any chances that they will give me penalty instead of procecution?

Thank you.

 

[Haywain]

dont have enough knowledge on the rules and regulation,

Oh, come on, it's pretty obvious that a child's zip card can't be used by just anyone in the family.

my friend help us in getting this zip card of my son, they also said we can use this because we are family and that they are also using theirs sons card for months.

Not much of a friend then. And likely to find themselves in trouble eventually.

Btw i am on dependent visa my husband is a skilled worker visa.

We cannot advise on immigration matters, by law.

Any chances that they will give me penalty instead of procecution?

There is every likelihood that you will be prosecuted, as TfL take a very dim view of abuse of Zip cards.

 

[island]

Just a backround we re new here in the uk 1 year to be exact and dont have enough knowledge on the rules and regulation

I think it's quite obvious that a card with a person's photograph on it is only for use by the person in the photograph.

Any chances that they will give me penalty instead of procecution?

Assuming from what you've said that you're dealing with TfL and not Greater Anglia. To my knowledge if TfL was going to deal with this by way of a penalty and not prosecution, they only do that on the spot. Once they've taken details and reported, it will either be a prosecution (very likely) or a warning letter (very unlikely).

Btw i am on dependent visa my husband is a skilled worker visa.

As guests in the United Kingdom it is even more important that you follow its laws and rules. However, if you wish for advice on how this incident may affect your status in the country, unfortunately we cannot give you any, as it's an offence for unqualified people to give immigration advice.

 

[shell07]

Thank you for your reply. I really understand that we are at fault in here. Any advise you could give me on what to do

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Last saturday, I was stopped by the railway police at liverpool station using my son's zip card.

Sorry if this is being picky - but you do mean 'Liverpool Street' station in London, don't you?

Because if you got to either of the big stations in the city of Liverpool (maybe 300 km from London) using a Zip card, you're going to have other problems to deal with as well as it being someone else's ticket.

 

[shell07]

Sorry if this is being picky - but you do mean 'Liverpool Street' station in London, don't you?

Because if you got to either of the big stations in the city of Liverpool (maybe 300 km from London) using a Zip card, you're going to have other problems to deal with as well as it being someone else's ticket.

Liverpool street station, i dont usually go in there but that time victoria line and other train lines terminates

I think it's quite obvious that a card with a person's photograph on it is only for use by the person in the photograph.

Assuming from what you've said that you're dealing with TfL and not Greater Anglia. To my knowledge if TfL was going to deal with this by way of a penalty and not prosecution, they only do that on the spot. Once they've taken details and reported, it will either be a prosecution (very likely) or a warning letter (very unlikely).

As guests in the United Kingdom it is even more important that you follow its laws and rules. However, if you wish for advice on how this incident may affect your status in the country, unfortunately we cannot give you any, as it's an offence for unqualified people to give immigration advice.

Thank you for your answer, I fully understand my ignorant and my wrong doings. Its my first time and my first offence my entire life thats why im having depession and dont know what to do.

Is there a chance that I could request out if court settlement and promise not to do it again.

The officer who stopped me that days ask me to apply for another oyster as they will confiscate the old one, but Im not going to apply oyster for my son anymore as this incident traumatized us, It really stresses me out thinking of doing some worst thing to myself.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is there a chance that I could request out if court settlement and promise not to do it again.

You can request it but the normal way TfL dispose of these offences is to prosecute you in the magistrates' court. This is a very serious ticketing matter.

 

[shell07]

You can request it but the normal way TfL dispose of these offences is to prosecute you in the magistrates' court. This is a very serious ticketing matter.

Im overthinking while waiting for the letter, is there a chance that you know how long does it take for them to send the letter.

 

[spyinthesky]

We have been using this card for 2 mos. Sometimes just me alone sometimes with my son.

Its my first time and my first offence my entire life

It is your first time getting caught.

 

[shell07]

If they sent me a letter stationg the fine, and once I settle the fine should I get any criminal record also?

 

[AlterEgo]

If they sent me a letter stationg the fine, and once I settle the fine should I get any criminal record also?

If you settle out of court then you will not get a criminal record.

However you should understand that TfL prosecute basically all of these offences in the magistrates court. You should consult an immigration solicitor to find out what impact a criminal record would have on your immigration status.

 

[shell07]

If you settle out of court then you will not get a criminal record.

However you should understand that TfL prosecute basically all of these offences in the magistrates court. You should consult an immigration solicitor to find out what impact a criminal record would have on your immigration status.

Is there a chance that I could get penalty fine instead of prosecution?

 

[spyinthesky]

If they sent me a letter stationg the fine, and once I settle the fine should I get any criminal record also?

In the unlikely event they are going to offer you an out of court settlement, this is not a fine and doesn’t carry a criminal record.
It is likely to go to the courts and will no doubt issue a fine and costs, along with a criminal record.
How this affects your immigration status we cannot advise.

 

[jumble]

If you settle out of court then you will not get a criminal record.

However you should understand that TfL prosecute basically all of these offences in the magistrates court. You should consult an immigration solicitor to find out what impact a criminal record would have on your immigration status.

My understanding is that TFL never settle out of court as per the following FOI so you may be inadvertantly giving the OP false Hope

FOI request detail

FOI request detail

tfl.gov.uk

Please see the table below which gives a percentage of successful prosecutions. Please note that we do not ‘settle’ with customers outside of court, a case will either go to court or it is withdrawn. Those that are prosecuted will typically been issued a fine and made to pay court costs, rather than given a custodial sentence. Any costs are means tested so the figures vary depend on each case.

 

[AlterEgo]

My understanding is that TFL never settle out of court as per the following FOI so you may be inadvertantly giving the OP false Hope

In what way is saying "they basically prosecute all of these offences in the magistrates' court" anything other than factually true? We have seen maybe one or two settlements for this offence outside of court on the forum, but those were truly exceptional cases.

FOI request detail

FOI request detail

tfl.gov.uk

Please see the table below which gives a percentage of successful prosecutions. Please note that we do not ‘settle’ with customers outside of court

Right, so what point is this illustrating? Nothing, other than of the ones that go to court, which ones are successful. We have seen cases on here where there have been settlements with TfL, so the statement TfL make cannot be true.

Here's just one case, for example: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tfl-prosecution-court-date-2023.245093/page-2#post-6222687

 

[island]

I fully understand my ignorant and my wrong doings. Its my first time and my first offence my entire life thats why im having depession and dont know what to do.

You’ve been doing this for two months by your own admission, so no, it’s not your first offence.

Is there a chance that I could request out if court settlement and promise not to do it again.

TfL does not do out of court settlements. If you’ve been reported for prosecution the only outcomes are a warning letter (very unlikely) or a prosecution (very likely).

TfL almost always prosecutes these offences under its byelaws. If you are convicted in court, you will have to pay a fine, costs, a surcharge, and compensation. Typically this comes to between £500 and £700. So you’d better start saving.

 

[shell07]

You’ve been doing this for two months by your own admission, so no, it’s not your first offence.

TfL does not do out of court settlements. If you’ve been reported for prosecution the only outcomes are a warning letter (very unlikely) or a prosecution (very likely).

TfL almost always prosecutes these offences under its byelaws. If you are convicted in court, you will have to pay a fine, costs, a surcharge, and compensation. Typically this comes to between £500 and £700. So you’d better start saving.

Really appreciate your words. Do you know how long this case will run?

I have seen some succesfull cases, I am really hoping that they will take my case into consideration.

I will update here once i receive a letter. Hope anyone can help me reapond it.

Thank you

 

[notmyrealname]

When you get the TfL letter, post a copy of it here for us to have a look at. At the same time you can post a draft of your reply to them and we'll help with proof reading.

 

[shell07]

When you get the TfL letter, post a copy of it here for us to have a look at. At the same time you can post a draft of your reply to them and we'll help with proof reading.

Thank you so much I was inspired by your story hoping I can get a away with this and i really promise bot yo donit again

 

[AlterEgo]

Is there a chance that I could get penalty fine instead of prosecution?

There's such a tiny chance of that happening I would prepare to be prosecuted. TfL prosecute about 20,000 people a year.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Transport for London take misuse of Zip Oyster Cards very seriously and a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws is the usual outcome.

As for what happens next TfL will send you a Verification Letter, normally within a couple of weeks. The letter will ask you to confirm or deny the incident and ask you to give any mitigating circumstances which you would like them to take into account when deciding how to proceed.

I suggest you mention the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfL generally do not offer out of court settlements although in some very limited circumstances they have been known to issue a final warning instead of prosecution. Prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to tae into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income (normally discounted by a third for pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

A criminal conviction for a railway ticketing matter won't normally affect future career prospects but do note that legally we are unable to comment or assist when it comes to immigration issues.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

[shell07]

This is the letter Inreceived today

 

[ikcdab]

I guess the reverse asks you to plead guilty or not guilty.
You are guilty, so that is what you should plead.
Then write a response as per the post above.
You can post your proposed reply here for comment.
The best advice is to admit what you have done and to be open and honest in your reply.

 

[shell07]

This is what I plan to reply.

Please any advice if this is good to go

Dear Ma'am/Sir,

I am writing in response to the letter I received from TFL regarding an offense on the TFL public transport. I was travelling with the zip oyster card of my son. I am deeply sorry for my carelessness and being ignorant of the law which led to this offence and for all the inconveniences that occured. Since then, I have felt a great dealt of anxiety and been consume with so much regret.

I came from a not well-off and hardworking family that teach me morals which did not go with such actions I have made. I am under dependent visa of my husband who works in a Health and Care sector and I have a 5 year old son that looks up to me, we moved in this country from the small country dreaming of having a comfortable life. I understand the seriousness of the charge and how it could impact my future. I am humbly asking for your consideration to settle this offense without any court action, if these case was to proceed, it will ruin my future career and all my ambitions as this will appear in any DBS check, Also my famillies future as it may affect our Visas, we are looking to renew our visa this coming 2026 and this might be the cause of refusal that we don't want to happen. I dont want to be away from my family especially to my son that needs more care and attention in this early years of his life

I promise and will ensure to never experience this again and be more careful, diligent, responsible and to familiarize the TFL laws to avoid being ignorant and to stay away from any future troubles. I accept I have commited an offense and realize the harmful impact this have done to TFL and I am more than willing to pay whatever cost are deemed necessary to compensate my action, I can say this is one of the hardest moment of my life that teaches me a lifetime lesson.

I have never gotten any trouble in any authorities before thats why this really causes a great impact in my life and I know I must take responsibility for it, I hope you will see this as a genuine mistake which I will swear I will never commit again. Furthermore, I hope we can reach into conclution which fully compensate TFL and to go as smoothly without any further prosecution.

Thank you and God Bless

 

[AlterEgo]

I guess the reverse asks you to plead guilty or not guilty.
You are guilty, so that is what you should plead.
Then write a response as per the post above.
You can post your proposed reply here for comment.
The best advice is to admit what you have done and to be open and honest in your reply.

This looks like a verification letter, not a summons. It won’t ask for a plea as such.

 

[shell07]

This looks like a verification letter, not a summons. It won’t ask for a plea as such.

What does that mean? At the back of this paper it says 1. If plead not guilty 2. If guilty provide some circumstances for consideration

 

[AlterEgo]

What does that mean? At the back of this paper it says 1. If plead not guilty 2. If guilty provide some circumstances for consideration

Please show us a copy of the reverse of the letter? My understanding is that this isn’t a summons, yet I could be wrong.

 

[shell07]

Please show us a copy of the reverse of the letter? My understanding is that this isn’t a summons, yet I could be wrong.

 

[AlterEgo]

That isn’t a plea, which can only be made to the court. That’s TfL asking for your version of events, which is different. It’s an opportunity to, if you want, explain in your own words how and why you committed the offence and offer any apologies. The summons or requisition will be separate and will the formal commencement of legal proceedings.

 

[shell07]

That isn’t a plea, which can only be made to the court. That’s TfL asking for your version of events, which is different. It’s an opportunity to, if you want, explain in your own words how and why you committed the offence and offer any apologies. The summons or requisition will be separate and will the formal commencement of legal proceedings.

Does that means i will receive separate letter from the court? Or if tfl accepts my letter i will pay penalty instead?