Change of operator on missed connection

[sigma421]

I've missed a Virgin West Coast connection to Edinburgh at Preston due to a late running service from Manchester (understandable today). The staff at Preston say I have to wait 2 hours for the next VTWC train rather than taking the TPE train in an hour. Is this correct?

 

[northwichcat]

If your ticket says Route:VWC+Connections then yes, if it says Route:Any Permitted then no.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

What sort of ticket do you have?

If it is an advance ticket (meaning that your ticket says 'Advance' somewhere on it - probably the top left hand corner) then the staff are right. If it's some other sort of ticket, then you can probably use it on the next train - whoever is the operator - although also see JCollins' point above.

It is probably worth finding the guard of the TPE train and asking them before boarding whether they will accept your ticket. They may be willing to help you

And please remember that us here are just people interested in the railways. Ultimately, in the circumstance you find yourself in, it's what the staff on the train say that goes.

Someone will be along soon with more detail, but this should get you going for the moment.

 

[bb21]

What ticket did you have?

If it is a Virgin Only/VTWC Only ticket then technically yes, you have to wait for the next service, in line with Condition 9.4 of the Conditions of Travel.

9.4

Notwithstanding Condition 9.2 (b) above, if you are using an advance Ticket and
you miss your booked train because a previous connecting train service was
delayed, you will be able to travel on the next train service provided by the Train
Company with whom you were booked without penalty.

That said, I am surprised you were told to wait for 2 hours. Usually for delays over an hour, you will be accommodated on the next service regardless of operator.

I second the suggestion to seek out the guard of the TPE service. It cannot hurt to ask.

 

[sigma421]

Thanks folks. Someone at Virgin is going to have a word with the TPE guard and they seem fairly sure we'll be able to travel on that one.

To be honest I was under the (clearly incorrect) impression that tickets basically became flexible once a connection was missed. Clearly that was wrong!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect they've been told not to authorise a change of operator by TPE (possibly because their trains are often heavily overcrowded, while VTWC's aren't). Only TPE can authorise that, strictly speaking. I suspect speaking to the guard will do the trick.

 

[Camden]

It's something that needs to change about the way the railways are run. While the original TOC should have responsibility for the delivery of the service (delay repay, ensuring trains run on time etc) what I believe should be changed to happen is that when their customers need to use an alternative service to complete their journey in a timely manner then the TOC which operates the replacement service should be entitled to bill original TOC for the cost.

 

[bb21]

It's something that needs to change about the way the railways are run. While the original TOC should have responsibility for the delivery of the service (delay repay, ensuring trains run on time etc) what I believe should be changed to happen is that when their customers need to use an alternative service to complete their journey in a timely manner then the TOC which operates the replacement service should be entitled to bill original TOC for the cost.

It's a lot of admin for little gain, as things will tend to even out in the long run.

 

[yorkie]

I've missed a Virgin West Coast connection to Edinburgh at Preston due to a late running service from Manchester (understandable today). The staff at Preston say I have to wait 2 hours for the next VTWC train rather than taking the TPE train in an hour. Is this correct?

Do you have more information regarding what train you caught from Manchester? If it was a TPE train the conversation with TPE should go positively (and if not, I could think of things to say to make it interesting at least!)

Also what was the reason for the delay and were other trains affected?

If it was Northern then it's not ideal as effectively 3 companies are involved, but the rail industry should not penalise customers further when delaying them.

 

[sigma421]

To complete the story the TPE guard was absolutely fine about it (that train was late out of Manchester too). There seems to be about of an 'everyone mucking in' spirit after events in Manchester this week. The service I started on was a Northern MAN Airport-Blackpool North service. The itinerary was Butnage-Piccadilly-Haymarket-Linlithgow which I appreciate is probably one of the rarer ones.

Thanks for the detailed responses. Clearly I was wrong about the letter of the law but it was good to see common sense (eventually) being applied.

 

[northwichcat]

TThe itinerary was Butnage-Piccadilly-Haymarket-Linlithgow which I appreciate is probably one of the rarer ones.

Even rarer than Burnage to Linlithgow.

 

[Camden]

It's a lot of admin for little gain, as things will tend to even out in the long run.

Absolutely, which really underlines the needlessness of the rule. It's a lot of inconvenience to already inconvenienced passengers for no justifiable reason.

 

[sigma421]

Even rarer than Burnage to Linlithgow.

Apologies, phone typing and all that!

 

[185143]

I've been refused boarding of an alternative TOCs service in the past. I was travelling to Filey and missed my 2 hourly connection at Sheffield...

 

[yorkie]

This can be a useful document:
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/files/ACOP015v3%20-%20PIDD%20(2).pdf

The nature of the rail network means that many passengers use connecting trains travelling with more than one TOC in a single journey. During disruptive incidents passengers should not be discriminated against on the basis of operator and efforts should be made to deliver the same high standards to everyone. This includes passengers travelling on TOC-specific tickets who have been re-routed onto another TOC’s trains because of disruption

It would be difficult to argue a case in the event of the 'correct' operators train running shortly after an earlier train by a different operator, but if you are talking about getting a 2 hour delay down to just a few minutes, then it would be difficult for the train companies to argue that policy should not apply.

I'd also say that your case would be strengthened if the relevant connection was onto the same TOC who caused the initial delay and/or if it was the 'connections' part affected. Now we know this is not applicable to the OP's journey, but for future reference, it is worth posting full information (regarding the delay and intended vs alternative itineraries and any other relevant information), so that we can consider the reasonableness of the request.

In practice, most railway staff will agree to allow reasonable alternatives, and it is pleasing to hear that common sense prevailed.

 

[najaB]

It would be difficult to argue a case in the event of the 'correct' operators train running shortly after an earlier train by a different operator, but if you are talking about getting a 2 hour delay down to just a few minutes, then it would be difficult for the train companies to argue that policy should not apply.

Though, for completeness, it is worth noting that the railway's definition of "disruptive incidents" may not match the passenger's. A single train being delayed isn't going to represent a CSL2 threshold breach (which is when the above-quoted guidance applies).