Change of route excess

[Halsebee]

I want to travel Taunton to Worthing via Fareham route but return via London with overnight break of journey in London.
Can I use the £62.40 saver return route Salisbury, and buy a change of route excess to the SuperSaver any permitted ticket £101.60 for the return to give a fare of £80 total.
Essentially the question is can I change of route excess to a different class of ticket and is a break of journey allowed on the proposed return journey?

 

[Hadders]

This is fine. A change of route excess in one direction is half the difference between the fares, so in this case £19.60. In my experience you often have to shop around to obtain excesses as many staff won't or don't know how to issue them.

You can try and purchase it at Taunton, on board the train to Worthing, at Worthing or onboard the train to London. You can purchase a change of route excess on board with no penalty.

 

[Jason12]

This is a question which also interests me and when it has come up before the answers given have always been that the change of route excess is half the difference between the appropriate fares for the journeys taken by the different routes.

In the case the OP cites an SVR is held for the outward route via Salisbury (Fareham). For the return, there is an SVR for the route (any Permitted). So why is the cheaper SSR the appropriate fare on which to base the change of route excess?

It seems to me that is some cases, a change of route excess could be a sleight of hand way of obtaining an excess to a change of ticket type, which ought to be charged as the difference between fares, not half the difference.

 

[Hadders]

The SSR is the appropriate fare if its time restrictions allow the OP to make their journey, which in this case it is. It can also work the other way where you have to excess into a more expensive ticket type.

It is this way so that passengers have flexibility about the routes they can take.

 

[Jason12]

It is this way so that passengers have flexibility about the routes they can take.

I understand why, in principle, a change of route excess is allowed and why its half the difference. The question for me is whether a surreptitious change of ticket type is also allowed, along with the change of route, at half the difference.

As an example being Manchester to Woking. If a customer holds an Off-Peak return (SVR) from Manchester to Woking, route via London (£106.60) and they want to return via Oxford at a time the SVR via that route isn't valid, can they obtain a change of route excess to an Anytime Return (SOR, £242.80), route via Oxford at half the difference (£68.10)?

 

[Haywain]

The question for me is whether a surreptitious change of ticket type is also allowed, along with the change of route, at half the difference.

Sometimes, it is completely unavoidable because the two routes do not have common ticket types.

 

[Jason12]

Sometimes, it is completely unavoidable because the two routes do not have common ticket types.

Indeed, but what is the rule in such cases? What is the appropriate fare to excess to?

One interpretation appears to be; "The cheapest return fare which is valid for the journey via the changed route at the time the customer wishes to travel", and that this interpretation is applied even where a more expensive fare exists for the changed route, for a ticket of the same type as that held.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In BR days I remember the rule being that you could only change one thing at a time in an excess, so if you wanted to do ticket type and route you'd have to do one then the other as applicable. But things are such a mess now that pragmatism seems to rule, though this often requires "shopping round".

 

[Haywain]

Indeed, but what is the rule in such cases? What is the appropriate fare to excess to?

One interpretation appears to be; "The cheapest return fare which is valid for the journey via the changed route at the time the customer wishes to travel", and that this interpretation is applied even where a more expensive fare exists for the changed route, for a ticket of the same type as that held.

This is what Knowledgebase says about that:

General Principles
The Excess fare to charge is the difference between the price of the ticket held and the price of the cheapest ticket(s) available for immediate travel on the chosen service.

The cheapest available ticket(s) suitable for the journey being made may vary, depending on the specific train, time of day or day of week on which customers wish to travel. The cheapest ticket could be an Anytime, Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak ticket. It will never be an Advance ticket.

 

[Jason12]

This is what Knowledgebase says about that:

Thanks for that. But it states that the excess will be "the difference between the price of the ticket held and the price of the cheapest ticket(s)..." not half the difference, as applies to a simple change of route.

 

[Haywain]

Thanks for that. But it states that the excess will be "the difference between the price of the ticket held and the price of the cheapest ticket(s)..." not half the difference, as applies to a simple change of route.

It's a statement on the general principles for ALL excess fares, not change of route specifically.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for that. But it states that the excess will be "the difference between the price of the ticket held and the price of the cheapest ticket(s)..." not half the difference, as applies to a simple change of route.

@Haywain hasn’t quoted the whole procedure which goes on to say that a change of route excess for one portion is half the difference in price.

Perish the thought that the railway might actually want to offer flexibility to passengers without them feeling ripped off.

 

[Jason12]

Yes, I understand the general principle, which if followed would charge the OP an excess of £39.20 to excess from the SVR (via Salisbury) to the SSR (Any Permitted) for the return journey.

I also understand that to excess from the SVR (via Salisbury) to SVR (Any Permitted, £134.60) the excess would be half the difference, i.e. £36.10.

What I don't see is anything in the knowledgebase, or elsewhere, to support an interpetation that where a change of route also involves a change of ticket type, the excess can be charged at half the difference.

 

[Haywain]

What I don't see is anything in the knowledgebase, or elsewhere, to support an interpetation that where a change of route also involves a change of ticket type, the excess can be charged at half the difference.

I have no idea what you're reading then. It seems quite clear that if you've travelled on a a route where the SVR is the cheapest fare, and you're changing to a route where the SSR is available and suitable for the time you are travelling, then that SSR is the fare that should be used for the change of route calculation.

 

[Wallsendmag]

As with every brief, no matter how well written, it all comes down to the comprehension skills of the reader.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Yes, I understand the general principle, which if followed would charge the OP an excess of £39.20 to excess from the SVR (via Salisbury) to the SSR (Any Permitted) for the return journey.

I also understand that to excess from the SVR (via Salisbury) to SVR (Any Permitted, £134.60) the excess would be half the difference, i.e. £36.10.

What I don't see is anything in the knowledgebase, or elsewhere, to support an interpetation that where a change of route also involves a change of ticket type, the excess can be charged at half the difference.

Surely it is logical it would be the full difference if changing outwards and return journey but half if only changing the return journey as is the case in the OPs situation.

 

[Jason12]

I have no idea what you're reading then. It seems quite clear that if you've travelled on a a route where the SVR is the cheapest fare, and you're changing to a route where the SSR is available and suitable for the time you are travelling, then that SSR is the fare that should be used for the change of route calculation.

I'm reading what you've quoted and don't dispute that's quite clear, that in such a case, the excess payable is the difference between the SVR and SSR fares.

Surely it is logical it would be the full difference if changing outwards and return journey but half if only changing the return journey as is the case in the OPs situation.

There is a certain logic to that argument. But the same logic would apply to excessing the return portion of an "Off-Peak" return to an "Anytime" return. As the outward journey has been made subject to the "Off-Peak" restrictions and only the return journey is "Anytime", logically the excess payable ought to be half the difference between the fares. But that's not how it's charged.

 

[furlong]

This is not about logic. It is about the *current* rules, which are more generous to the passenger than they were under B.R., for the reason already given, namely the increasingly common lack of consistency of ticket types and restrictions across different routeings for a journey.

However I've found that even a ticket office at a major London terminal like London Marylebone now employs staff who don't appear to know anything about straightforward change of route excesses - on a recent visit asking to buy a ticket to travel out by one route and return by the other, the price that came up on the credit card machine was incorrect so I queried it. When I explained exactly what I was expecting to be issued I was told there was no such thing and that even if there was the ticket machine there could not issue it. I had to be persistent, and it was only after saying I had bought the exact thing there previously that I was taken seriously enough for a colleague to be found who did possess basic knowledge of excesses and who issued it. This is the only time I have ever had a problem buying a change of route excess. Normally it's quick and simple. Standards are slipping.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Problem I've sometimes experienced is (almost) being charged the full difference for a one-way changes of route excesses, i.e. not just half the difference.

No joy at Manchester Piccadilly, Bolton or Blackburn.

However, Preston (Lancs) and Doncaster knew what was needed and got it right straightaway.

 

[island]

I had to be persistent, and it was only after saying I had bought the exact thing there previously that I was taken seriously enough for a colleague to be found who did possess basic knowledge of excesses and who issued it.

I bet I know who the colleague was

 

[Bletchleyite]

Problem I've sometimes experienced is (almost) being charged the full difference for a one-way changes of route excesses, i.e. not just half the difference.

I've had this too, both at MKC and at East Grinstead, if I recall. In both cases I noticed it and they refused to correct it, believing they were right, so I had to chase it up afterwards. In both cases Customer Services sent a RTV.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Unfortunately, Ticket Office training at most TOCs appears to have been pared back to the absolute minimum. When I started on the railway, we had a full three weeks of classroom training before we were allowed anywhere near a live window. Nowadays it seems you're lucky if you get three days!

Hence why new starters have issues with things like Excesses, Rovers & Rangers, Sleepers (not helped by GWR changing how the Night Riviera is sold!), Bus Links, and Rail-Sea-Rail tickets.

 

[Jason12]

This is not about logic. It is about the *current* rules, which are more generous to the passenger than they were under B.R., for the reason already given, namely the increasingly common lack of consistency of ticket types and restrictions across different routeings for a journey.

So what are the *current rules*? As a mere passenger, I don't have access to the knowledgebase, but when this question has come up before on the forum, some insiders have quoted the process for excessing a return ticket for a change of route for travel in one direction as:

"Charge HALF the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate Return fare for the journey being made.
If no through fare, charge the appropriate Single fare for the part of the journey not covered by the ticket held."

If that is still what the knowledgebase states, what is the "appropriate Return fare"?

Does it depend in any way on the ticket type of the ticket held, or can an Off-Peak Day Return (CDR), route via X, be excessed to an Anytime Return (SOR), route Any Permitted, for HALF the difference?

 

[Halsebee]

Thanks everyone.
Can I ask for an answer to the second quwstion, is an overnight BOJ in London allowed on the SSR return portion?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thanks everyone.
Can I ask for an answer to the second quwstion, is an overnight BOJ in London allowed on the SSR return portion?

If you are still talking about the £62.40 Off Peak Return Taunton to Worthing (route via Salisbury) then no, unless of course you do get the appropriate change of route excess. Peak travel restrictions may also apply when resuming your journey from London back to Taunton depending on the day of the week that you travel and I reckon that the change of route excess may need to be issued on appropriate ticket stock to work the barriers on your cross-London transfer via LU. Also, depending on where you break your journey in Central London, if you do use your ticket on the London Underground system, it's good for a single journey only, for example from Victoria across to Paddington, not for multiple trips.

 

[Halsebee]

I went to the station to buy this £62.40 Off Peak Return Taunton to Worthing (route via Salisbury) ticket, with a change of route excess to SSR via London. The price quoted was correct, costing an additional £18 approx, but I was informed the SSR excess had to have a date specified anf be used only on that date? Even though both the original off peak ticket and the SSR ticket would normally be vlid for a month flexibly including a BOJ on return journey. The ticket office clerk was clear that an excess ticket is only valid on a specific date andf isn't flexible.
Can anyone clarigy please?

 

[jfollows]

I went to the station to buy this £62.40 Off Peak Return Taunton to Worthing (route via Salisbury) ticket, with a change of route excess to SSR via London. The price quoted was correct, costing an additional £18 approx, but I was informed the SSR excess had to have a date specified anf be used only on that date? Even though both the original off peak ticket and the SSR ticket would normally be vlid for a month flexibly including a BOJ on return journey. The ticket office clerk was clear that an excess ticket is only valid on a specific date andf isn't flexible.
Can anyone clarigy please?

It’s complete rubbish, but does that help you? What did you buy and can you show us?

 

[Hadders]

An excess has the effect of converting one ticket into another. So if the ticket you were converting it to has a months validity then so should the excess.

I suspect that the member of staff did the excess slightly wrong.

Instead of doing it for the return portion of a Taunton to Worthing ticket (which would be valid for a month) I suspect they have done it for the outward portion of a Worthing to Taunton ticket (which would only be valid for one day).

 

[Halsebee]

It’s complete rubbish, but does that help you? What did you buy and can you show us?

I didn't buy the ticket, pending asking for advice here

 

[Hadders]

It’s often necessary to shop around to obtain an excess. Remember that a change of route excess can be purchased onboard with no extra charge or penalty.