Changing train (Advanced ticket) when timetable changes with strike?

[Kumquat]

I've booked a journey from my local station to St Pancras to Nottingham, going on Sat 20th May.
Two advance singles bought from EMR in one transaction, returning the following day.

They've emailed me to say the local Thameslink train (9.48) isn't running on Saturday, so I can get the next one or a refund. Could I get the previous train, and thus still catch my reserved train to Nottingham? The FAQs and guidance were not helpful, only mentioning 'the next Thameslink train', but that would make me miss my connection and lose my seat to NOT.

Alternatively I can rebook my journey for free (how kind of them!), but as both trips were purchased together, I have to rebook both, paying more than £10 more, and the routes available are via less-accessible stations. Or I could use bus and tube to get to KX, again paying more.

 

[Benjwri]

Could I get the previous train, and thus still catch my reserved train to Nottingham?

Do you have a paper ticket, and if so do you have a reservation (even if it just says use an seat), for the Thameslink train that is now cancelled?

 

[Kumquat]

Do you have a paper ticket, and if so do you have a reservation (even if it just says use an seat), for the Thameslink train that is now cancelled?

It's collect at machine, but no, you can't reserve seats on Thameslink. Only the StP-NOT part has a seat reservation.

 

[Starmill]

It's collect at machine, but no, you can't reserve seats on Thameslink. Only the StP-NOT part has a seat reservation.

Unfortunately you may still be given a reservation for a train without any allocated seat.

 

[yorkie]

I've booked a journey from my local station to St Pancras to Nottingham, going on Sat 20th May.
Two advance singles bought from EMR in one transaction, returning the following day.

They've emailed me to say the local Thameslink train (9.48) isn't running on Saturday, so I can get the next one or a refund. Could I get the previous train, and thus still catch my reserved train to Nottingham? The FAQs and guidance were not helpful, only mentioning 'the next Thameslink train', but that would make me miss my connection and lose my seat to NOT.

Yes, you can get the previous train.

Or if you choose not to use the tickets(s), you are entitled to a full refund (no admin fee can be charged).

Alternatively I can rebook my journey for free (how kind of them!), but as both trips were purchased together, I have to rebook both, paying more than £10 more, and the routes available are via less-accessible stations. Or I could use bus and tube to get to KX, again paying more.

Tip for future reference: you may want to consider using the forum's site; it will split the journey into multiple tickets (if e-tickets are available, they will be issued in one handy PDF; one ticket per page) and you won't be (wrongly) made to pay any admin fees to get a refund if any of the legs in the booking is disrupted.

 

[Benjwri]

It's collect at machine, but no, you can't reserve seats on Thameslink. Only the StP-NOT part has a seat reservation.

This unfortunately isn’t true, Thameslink has counted place reservations on certain services (Mostly the longer distance trains). If you could tell us which train you were booked on, and the one you’re wanting to use, we can check whether either has reservations and go from there.

if e-tickets are available, they will be issued in one handy PDF; one ticket per page

Although worth noting in the case of advance tickets with a non reservable leg, such as potentially this case, a paper ticket, which the forum site also offers, is advantageous, as an e ticket can tie you to non reservable legs.

 

[yorkie]

This unfortunately isn’t true, Thameslink has counted place reservations on certain services (Mostly the longer distance trains). If you could tell us which train you were booked on, and the one you’re wanting to use, we can check whether either has reservations and go from there.

You're talking at cross purposes; it's booked train only ticket with a "counted place reservation", not a seat reservation.

It sounds like the "split point" is likely St Pancras and the first ticket held is a Thameslink Advance fare. My advice for people seeing advice is to post the full intended itinerary with a list of all ticket(s) held, for the avoidance of doubt.

Although worth noting in the case of advance tickets with a non reservable leg, such as potentially this case, a paper ticket, which the forum site also offers, is advantageous, as an e ticket can tie you to non reservable legs.

That's one possible interpretation, but the point has been debated recently in various threads (e.g. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tfw-e-ticket-advice.246777/#post-6167289 and others; I can't immediately find the links now)

 

[Benjwri]

It sounds like the "split point" is likely St Pancras and the first ticket held is a Thameslink Advance fare

I interpreted this as being a journey on a single ticket, the issue being they bought two advance singles, one outbound, one return, and EMR is wanting them to refund both.

 

[yorkie]

I interpreted this as being a journey on a single ticket, the issue being they bought two advance singles, one outbound, one return, and EMR is wanting them to refund both.

Ah yes you could be right. This makes no sense as the return journey is completely unaffected so I don't understand how any system would force the return journey to also be re-booked and charge a fee; this certainly shouldn't happen.

 

[Benjwri]

Ah yes you could be right. This makes no sense as the return journey is completely unaffected so I don't understand how any system would force the return journey to also be re-booked and charge a fee; this certainly shouldn't happen.

I assumed it isn’t split as I don’t believe EMR offers split ticketing through their site. You are right the rebooking situation is odd, not sure if it sounds like it’s charging a fee or basically refunding and buying new tickets, so no fee but pricier advances because it’s closer to the time.

As you say we do really need an itinerary and details of the tickets held.

 

[Kumquat]

You're talking at cross purposes; it's booked train only ticket with a "counted place reservation", not a seat reservation.

It sounds like the "split point" is likely St Pancras and the first ticket held is a Thameslink Advance fare. My advice for people seeing advice is to post the full intended itinerary with a list of all ticket(s) held, for the avoidance of doubt.


That's one possible interpretation, but the point has been debated recently in various threads (e.g. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tfw-e-ticket-advice.246777/#post-6167289 and others; I can't immediately find the links now)

Original itinerary Streatham 9.48 to StP 10.17, 10.35 StP to NOT. The 9.48 isn't running but the 9.18 is, apparently.

Just poked the website. Turns out the confirmation email includes info not available on the website, like price per leg and reservation details. I used EMR's site and the booking just says Advanced Single.
The confirmation says '1x Advance Single, 1x Adult, No Seats Reserved. Specified Train Only. No Refunds.' - but there's a seat reservation for the return journey NOT-StP.

The email telling me I can take the next train says to look at the Booking Conditions on the website, which don't tell me anything helpful about the train not running.

So now I have two questions: can I take the 9.18 train (and what do I cite if someone claims I'm on the wrong train?), and how can I get a seat from StP?

I have a disabled Railcard and will book assistance if necessary to get a seat.

The last time I used pdf tickets, the pdf QR code was right at the top of my phone screen and couldn't be read properly and I got yelled at by barrier staff at StP, so paper seemed like a good idea...

 

[yorkie]

So now I have two questions: can I take the 9.18 train

Yes

(and what do I cite if someone claims I'm on the wrong train?),

No-one will say that but you'd show the email.

and how can I get a seat from StP?

If you get the train you said (0918), you will get your booked seat

I have a disabled Railcard and will book assistance if necessary to get a seat.

The last time I used pdf tickets, the pdf barcode was right at the top of my phone screen and couldn't be read properly and I got yelled at by barrier staff at StP, so paper seemed like a good idea...

I should be surprised at the behaviour of the EMR gateline staff, but sadly I'm not.

If you struggle to display PDFs on your phone, there is the option to print them (if you have access to a printer) or maybe someone else can help you.

Alternatively, yes you can use paper tickets but they are being phased out and you lose certain benefits (for example if you lose a paper ticket, then you're stuffed, a copy can't be made)

 

[Kumquat]

Yes

No-one will say that but you'd show the email.

If you get the 0948, you will get your booked seat

I should be surprised at the behaviour of the EMR gateline staff, but sadly I'm not.

If you struggle to display PDFs on your phone, there is the option to print them (if you have access to a printer) or maybe someone else can help you.

Alternatively, yes you can use paper tickets but they are being phased out and you lose certain benefits (for example if you lose a paper ticket, then you're stuffed, a copy can't be made)

Thanks, but it's the 9.48, on my booking, which has been cancelled? I want to take the earlier 9.18 train but the email only mentions being able to take a later one.
And it turns out I don't have any booked seats for the Saturday (but does that mean I may still have a 'reservation' as someone suggested upthread?)

Normally I can see PDFs just fine on my phone - I use them all the time. This time I wasn't given the option of anything except collection from a machine or getting the tickets by post!

 

[yorkie]

Thanks, but it's the 9.48, on my booking, which has been cancelled?

You can take the 0918.

I want to take the earlier 9.18 train but the email only mentions being able to take a later one.

I don't think companies like EMR pay attention to detail; I don't think they are trying to prevent you connecting into your booked train, it's just sloppy wording.

You can either take the train before, or after. It's your choice.

And it turns out I don't have any booked seats for the Saturday (but does that mean I may still have a 'reservation' as someone suggested upthread?)

In that case you have a "counted place reservation" which is meaningless other than for the purpose of restricting you to taking that train (except, of course, if the train is missed due to a delay/cancellation to a connecting service). If you arrive in plenty of time, you're likely to find plenty of available seats, particularly towards the front of the train.

In the unlikely event that there are no available seats, seek the Train Manager for advice; if you have a disability that would make standing difficult, I'm sure* the TM would do anything they could to assist you (this could, for example, be a complimentary upgrade to 1st class).

(* OK, reasonably sure, not certain; there are a few bad TMs out there but they are the minority and the quality of staff in this role is generally far higher than you tend to get on gatelines! with some exceptions, of course)

Normally I can see PDFs just fine on my phone - I use them all the time.

Maybe it was just zoomed in? The staff should be offering to help, but sadly not everyone in such roles wants to help people.

This time I wasn't given the option of anything except collection from a machine or getting the tickets by post!

That'll be because the ticket is valid for a 'cross London transfer' (which in this case is simply a matter of remaining on the Thameslink service, but in other cases it could involve London Underground, who don't like e-tickets, but that's a whole new topic!)

 

[Hadders]

Thameslink trains from Streatham to St Pancras are unreservable so you may take an appropriate train from Streatham to St Pancras to connect onto your booked train from St Pancras to Nottingham

 

[Benjwri]

Unfortunately another factor to complicate matters is that there are actually no services from Streatham on Saturday 20th due to the action short of a strike. You will have to take a Southern train from Streatham Common or Hill to Victoria, then the underground to St Pancras. The travel to Victoria should be included, however depending on the routeing of your ticket the travel on the underground may not. What route does it say on your ticket?

Having checked BRFares, your ticket should be routed ✠AP EMR & CONNECT, assuming you have a through ticket, so you will be able to use this ticket to travel on the underground from Victoria to St Pancras

You can use the 0917 from Streatham Hill (Arrives Victoria 0939), or the 0919 from Streatham Common (Arrives Victoria 0942). Using either of these services will ensure you remain within the minimum connection time from Victoria to St Pancras, so if you suffered a delay on the first train, or tube, you would be able to take the next EMR service to Victoria.

 

[miklcct]

That'll be because the ticket is valid for a 'cross London transfer' (which in this case is simply a matter of remaining on the Thameslink service, but in other cases it could involve London Underground, who don't like e-tickets, but that's a whole new topic!)

Which means the OP can also travel from Streatham to Victoria and take the tube to St Pancras as the connection as well.

 

[Starmill]

Unfortunately another factor to complicate matters is that there are actually no services from Streatham on Saturday 20th due to the action short of a strike. You will have to take a Southern train from Streatham Common or Hill to Victoria, then the underground to St Pancras. The travel to Victoria should be included, however depending on the routeing of your ticket the travel on the underground may not. What route does it say on your ticket?

Having checked BRFares, your ticket should be routed ✠AP EMR & CONNECT, assuming you have a through ticket, so you will be able to use this ticket to travel on the underground from Victoria to St Pancras

You can use the 0917 from Streatham Hill (Arrives Victoria 0939), or the 0919 from Streatham Common (Arrives Victoria 0942). Using either of these services will ensure you remain within the minimum connection time from Victoria to St Pancras, so if you suffered a delay on the first train, or tube, you would be able to take the next EMR service to Victoria.

I'm afraid that it's very unlikely that Southern / EMR will arrange for this ticket to be accepted on London Underground.

If the OP's original ticket includes London Underground (as I agree with you it's likely it does, as shown by the + marker), and the OP still wishes to use their cross-London transfer, they're likely to need to pay for it, keep some evidence and submit a claim for a the cost. A registered Oyster or Contactless card can produce an electronic invoice online after travel, otherwise buy a ticket from the machine, request a receipt and keep it.

 

[Benjwri]

I'm afraid that it's very unlikely that Southern / EMR will arrange for this ticket to be accepted on London Underground.

If the OP's original ticket includes London Underground (as I agree with you it's likely it does, as shown by the + marker), and the OP still wishes to use their cross-London transfer, they're likely to need to pay for it, keep some evidence and submit a claim for a the cost. A registered Oyster or Contactless card can produce an electronic invoice online after travel, otherwise buy a ticket from the machine, request a receipt and keep it.

They definitely aren't doing ticket acceptance on the 20th. The ticket will have a Maltese Cross on it, and in the past I've found the underground barriers let you through on advances with a Maltese cross, even if your journey was originally not on the underground. The presence of a Maltese Cross makes it likely gateline staff would let them through regardless.

 

[Haywain]

If the OP's original ticket includes London Underground (as I agree with you it's likely it does, as shown by the + marker), and the OP still wishes to use their cross-London transfer, they're likely to need to pay for it, keep some evidence and submit a claim for a the cost.

I do not agree with this - the cross-London travel included in the ticket routeing cannot be removed by the issuing of an itinerary that does not include the underground. The itinerary is not encoded to the ticket whereas the cross-London travel is encoded and shown on the routeing.

 

[Starmill]

I do not agree with this - the cross-London travel included in the ticket routeing cannot be removed by the issuing of an itinerary that does not include the underground. The itinerary is not encoded to the ticket whereas the cross-London travel is encoded and shown on the routeing.

Of course. What I meant to say was if the customer is relying on the ticket acceptance. This is a common scenario when the ticket is being used on a different day to its original date, which it seemed to me the post was implying. However if that's not the case then I agree it's not very relevant.

 

[Benjwri]

This is a common scenario when the ticket is being used on a different day to its original date, which it seemed to me the post was implying. However if that's not the case then I agree it's not very relevant.

I believe the OP is trying to travel on the booked train and ticket, but the connection service has been cancelled, which is where the issue comes from.

 

[Kumquat]

Unfortunately another factor to complicate matters is that there are actually no services from Streatham on Saturday 20th due to the action short of a strike. You will have to take a Southern train from Streatham Common or Hill to Victoria, then the underground to St Pancras. The travel to Victoria should be included, however depending on the routeing of your ticket the travel on the underground may not. What route does it say on your ticket?

Having checked BRFares, your ticket should be routed ✠AP EMR & CONNECT, assuming you have a through ticket, so you will be able to use this ticket to travel on the underground from Victoria to St Pancras

You can use the 0917 from Streatham Hill (Arrives Victoria 0939), or the 0919 from Streatham Common (Arrives Victoria 0942). Using either of these services will ensure you remain within the minimum connection time from Victoria to St Pancras, so if you suffered a delay on the first train, or tube, you would be able to take the next EMR service to Victoria.

Thank you for this - I hadn't actually clocked that EMR's website was showing an earlier, substitute train from Streatham *Common* not Streatham itself! Whoops!

I haven't printed the tickets yet, because that's an extra journey to the station, so all I know is from the email confirmation which I posted upthread. I suppose I'd better get to a station and print them tomorrow or Friday, in case Streatham station is locked up on Saturday.

By far the easiest and quickest route for me will be to get the bus to Brixton and tube to StP. I don't suppose there's any chance of my ticket being valid, or getting a refund of the bus & tube fares, if I do that?

I'll try the Passenger Assistance app and see if they can sort out a seat for the StP-Nott journey. Without going into detail about my medical issues atm, I really want to avoid Victoria.

 

[yorkie]

Thank you for this - I hadn't actually clocked that EMR's website was showing an earlier, substitute train from Streatham *Common* not Streatham itself! Whoops!

I haven't printed the tickets yet, because that's an extra journey to the station, so all I know is from the email confirmation which I posted upthread. I suppose I'd better get to a station and print them tomorrow or Friday, in case Streatham station is locked up on Saturday.

By far the easiest and quickest route for me will be to get the bus to Brixton and tube to StP. I don't suppose there's any chance of my ticket being valid, or getting a refund of the bus & tube fares, if I do that?

I'll try the Passenger Assistance app and see if they can sort out a seat for the StP-Nott journey. Without going into detail about my medical issues atm, I really want to avoid Victoria.

You won't get the £1.75 bus fare back, but the ticket should be absolutely fine for cross-London transfer from Brixton to St Pancras

I'll try the Passenger Assistance app and see if they can sort out a seat for the StP-Nott journey. Without going into detail about my medical issues atm, I really want to avoid Victoria.

If there are no seat reservations on the train then they won't be able to assign you a seat as such, but they may arrange for you to board the train early (if you are there in good time) before the platform is advertised to passengers and/or if the train is already full and no seats are available by the time you board, the Train Manager may upgrade you to 1st class at their discretion.

 

[Kumquat]

Help? I went to the Passenger Assistance app to ask for help in getting a seat on the 10:35 StP to Nottingham, tomorrow Sat 20 May.

It claims there are no direct trains running tomorrow to Nottingham! See screenshot of suggested route.

But EMR still lists trains as running, just that there 'may' be short notice changes or cancellations.

Who do I believe? Multiple changes is going to be very difficult for me...

 

[Haywain]

There are direct trains running, but you cannot reserve a seat.

 

[Kumquat]

Thank you @Haywain - EMR's assistance on WhatsApp have confirmed direct trains are running on the Sat, maybe not on the Sunday (when I'm returning). They're trying to book me assistance - seeing as the Passenger Assistance app requires you to say what train you're taking and denies my train exists!

I'll worry about the return journey later.