Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

[LOL The Irony]

The lack of a Winsford to Northwich link is still significant though.

To be fair, Northwich and Winsford have a rail link.

 

[pemma]

To be fair, Northwich and Winsford have a rail link.

Winsford station isn't centrally located and Hartford station is around 2 miles from Northwich town centre. You'd end up walking around 7 miles in total if making a return journey between the two two centres by rail. I think it's around 5 miles in each direction if you were to walk it along the River Weaver path.

 

[sonic2009]

The lack of a Winsford to Northwich link is still significant though.

Agreed, its not like some places in Winsford are close the the train station either.

Arriva Bus

www.arrivabus.co.uk

We are disappointed for all our customers to confirm that the strike will be continuing into next week, with no date yet for services to be resumed. We remain committed to getting our drivers back to work and buses back on the road as soon as possible

No agreement reached on the strike as of today, update published above. Interesting that Arriva are saying that the 8.5% pay offer hasn't been tabled to GMB/Unite members - are the union's holding out for more?

 

[ShaunyFlynn]

Update on the industrial action at Arriva:

Arriva Bus

www.arrivabus.co.uk

“We are very disappointed for all our customers affected by the continuing strike action, with still no date yet for services being resumed. 

We remain committed to getting our drivers back to work and buses back on the road as soon as possible. So, it is incredibly frustrating that our trade union partners, Unite and GMB, have today refused both to consider calling off the strike while we bring in ACAS – or to even meet with them.”

ACAS is a specialist independent body that supports employees and employers with resolving industrial relations disputes."

Howard Farrall continued:

“As we have stated repeatedly, we greatly value our people. They do a crucial job, keeping our communities and customers moving. They thoroughly deserve a pay rise, especially with the cost of living increasing. While trade union members are receiving ‘strike pay’ - we also recognise the importance of getting all of our colleagues back to work. Not only does the bus strike harm the very communities we serve, it is in nobody’s interest for this strike to persist a day longer.

It’s why we’ve put on the table a very generous increase for bus drivers at 8.5% – which is higher than most workers in either the public or private sector are receiving in these difficult economic times. But any pay rises must be affordable, to protect jobs and ensure that bus networks are sustainable when Government funding support finishes in the autumn.

We ask, again, for the union leadership to suspend the strike, so that we can serve our communities and work with us and ACAS to now bring this dispute to a swift resolution.”

 

[frodshamfella]

In that case, I think Tarporley is the only village at the moment with no public transport at all, there are no buses running, no train station & too far away from anywhere to consider getting a taxi.

I live in Dutton, I really wish we had a bus service, hasn't been one for years. Ideally a bus service to Frodsham would be useful, also Stockton Heath. Can't see it happening however.

 

[pemma]

I honestly think D&G don’t care about the 38 anymore. There are 4 vehicles allocated to the route throughout the day and pretty much every day, only 2 or 3 run. Meaning there can be a 2, 3 hour gap between services

Maybe they should start caring. I saw a very well loaded Solo on a 38 this afternoon.

 

[33117]

Well sports fans, we're nearly 2 weeks into this strike and there's still not even the smallest glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

Sorry to put this out there but it's looking like it's going the way of the Yorkshire dispute that lasted a month.

 

[station_road]

D&G are changing their 85 timetable from 5 September, mostly affecting the Crewe - Marshfield - Nantwich section. That is reduced to 1 bus every hour, with services also starting later and finishing earlier throughout.

https://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/pdf/public-transport/85-dg-variation-5-september-2022.pdf

 

[SeanM1997]

D&G are changing their 85 timetable from 5 September, mostly affecting the Crewe - Marshfield - Nantwich section. That is reduced to 1 bus every hour, with services also starting later and finishing earlier throughout.

https://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/pdf/public-transport/85-dg-variation-5-september-2022.pdf

Buses in Crewe are slowly deteriorating but for a town with such a high growth rate, it is a shame. Marshfield is a large residential area and reducing the dependency on the car must be a priority going forward. Hopefully there aren't many other cuts to come - but the Arriva strikes are also worrying for Crewe's connectivity to nearby towns and residential areas

 

[markymark2000]

Buses in Crewe are slowly deteriorating but for a town with such a high growth rate, it is a shame. Marshfield is a large residential area and reducing the dependency on the car must be a priority going forward. Hopefully there aren't many other cuts to come - but the Arriva strikes are also worrying for Crewe's connectivity to nearby towns and residential areas

It's hard to obtain growth when the council's focus is on private transport and refuses to do anything which could improve bus usage or experience and the bus network is ran mainly by 2 firms. 1 is ran by an office in Liverpool with no understanding of local needs and insistent on constant decline rather than encourage people onboard.
The other is just a general shambles. Insistent on not encouraging anyone onboard, constant decline. Stupidly long journey times and layovers needlessly (could be stopped by a zombie apocalypse and still be on-time at the next timing point).

All of the points which encourage people onto buses, Cheshire East Council and the bus operators do the opposite and no one cares.


CEC, Arriva and D&G should have all funding stopped to them until such time that they can be bothered to properly run the bus network and attempt growth for once. GHA were cowboys but they ran a damn sight better bus network than D&G, Arriva and the council do now!

 

[Contains Nuts]

GHA were cowboys but they ran a damn sight better bus network than D&G, Arriva and the council do now!

Obviously their business model was totally successful so everyone should look up to them as role models of the industry…

 

[LOL The Irony]

All of the points which encourage people onto buses, Cheshire East Council and the bus operators do the opposite and no one cares.

Yep. Just look what CEC and d&g have done to any town where d&g are the prominent operator. Seriously, Cheshire East is still a shambles and isn't much better under labour leadership. Another death by committee labour council.

CEC, Arriva and D&G should have all funding stopped to them until such time that they can be bothered to properly run the bus network and attempt growth for once.

Agreed. Although whether they actually do something about it then, or just use it as an excuse to turn every route into a commercial service, is yet to be seen.

GHA were cowboys but they ran a damn sight better bus network than D&G, Arriva and the council do now!

Also agreed. They were crap by pretty much all measures but d&g can't even think about holing a candle to them, never mind actually holding a candle to them.

 

[pemma]

The thing that worked with GHA bidding for contracts is they knew on certain routes other operators would put in a low bid and they were often the ones that ended up with a winning GHA bid with brand new buses e.g. the Beartown routes, the 42, 78 and 88.

Obviously their business model was totally successful so everyone should look up to them as role models of the industry…

The bus war model they used is what led to Stagecoach's dominance in the bus market. The problem for the brothers running GHA is they didn't have the resources to see that plan through. Trying to eliminate the main operator in Warrington by registering a 45, 46 and 16 and then not having the resources to run the 16 turned them in to a laughing stock.

 

[Simon75]

D&G are changing their 85 timetable from 5 September, mostly affecting the Crewe - Marshfield - Nantwich section. That is reduced to 1 bus every hour, with services also starting later and finishing earlier throughout.

https://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/pdf/public-transport/85-dg-variation-5-september-2022.pdf

Is it both still run from Crewe and Longton garages?

 

[markymark2000]

Is it both still run from Crewe and Longton garages?

Only from Crewe now.

 

[ShaunyFlynn]

Is it both still run from Crewe and Longton garages?

It hasn’t ran from Longton depot for a while, over a year I think.

 

[ShaunyFlynn]

After the news of another pay offer rejection yesterday, we can finally say that Arriva are back (for now, at least) Arriva North West have accepted an offer today meaning that the 12 week industrial action is now suspended. All services will resume from 03:00 tomorrow. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-62563007.amp

Personally, I think for routes such as 84, 31 & 37 where a big part of those routes are only served by that particular route, it will be a godsend to many passengers to hear that Arriva are back. Especially for those in Winsford.

But for routes such as 38 & 6 where D&G buses also lurk, I think some long-lasting damage has been done. Passengers are now used to the D&G timetables and wouldn’t want to change what time they get the bus for the third time in 4 weeks, knowing that Arriva are a liability now because of the strikes. Also D&G tickets are cheaper than Arriva so passengers on those two particular routes may well stay with D&G now.

 

[LOL The Irony]

But for routes such as 38 & 6 where D&G buses also lurk, I think some long-lasting damage has been done. Passengers are now used to the D&G timetables and wouldn’t want to change what time they get the bus for the third time in 4 weeks, knowing that Arriva are a liability now because of the strikes. Also D&G tickets are cheaper than Arriva so passengers on those two particular routes may well stay with D&G now.

Wait until d&g start pulling their usual tricks of turning up whenever they feel like it and padding out their timetables to kingdom come. They'll quickly go back to Arriva.

 

[markymark2000]

Wait until d&g start pulling their usual tricks of turning up whenever they feel like it and padding out their timetables to kingdom come. They'll quickly go back to Arriva.

What do you mean 'start pulling their usual trips', I didn't know they stopped that practise.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Wait until d&g start pulling their usual tricks of turning up whenever they feel like it and padding out their timetables to kingdom come. They'll quickly go back to Arriva.

why would any commercial business want to ‘pad out their timetable’ other than to cope with congestion etc ? All it would do is make each bus/driver less productive, so have the ability to earn less money? The only context in which it might make sense is in a contractual regime like TfL or the railway, where punctuality is a KPI which is- arguably - weighted too heavily.

 

[Simon75]

After the news of another pay offer rejection yesterday, we can finally say that Arriva are back (for now, at least) Arriva North West have accepted an offer today meaning that the 12 week industrial action is now suspended. All services will resume from 03:00 tomorrow. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-62563007.amp

Personally, I think for routes such as 84, 31 & 37 where a big part of those routes are only served by that particular route, it will be a godsend to many passengers to hear that Arriva are back. Especially for those in Winsford.

But for routes such as 38 & 6 where D&G buses also lurk, I think some long-lasting damage has been done. Passengers are now used to the D&G timetables and wouldn’t want to change what time they get the bus for the third time in 4 weeks, knowing that Arriva are a liability now because of the strikes. Also D&G tickets are cheaper than Arriva so passengers on those two particular routes may well stay with D&G now.

The 6 serves West Street and Underwood Lane, which has been unnserved for over month now

 

[markymark2000]

why would any commercial business want to ‘pad out their timetable’ other than to cope with congestion etc ? All it would do is make each bus/driver less productive, so have the ability to earn less money? The only context in which it might make sense is in a contractual regime like TfL or the railway, where punctuality is a KPI which is- arguably - weighted too heavily.

There could be a zombie apocalype in front of the bus and the bus would still end up on time at the next timing point.

As for productivity, D&G will often win a contract on face value and then go back to the council a few months later and say they need more running time and so either the council should pay up more money to cover additional resources or cuts should be made to accommodate it. So many contracts get taken on by D&G at a higher frequency and on a half decent timetable only to be ruined a few months later when the cuts come in. It's happened on various routes. On the 82, that used to be an hour Chester - Northwich using 2 buses. D&G run it at 1h 10 with 3 buses and so have to send the bus on a useless loop of Rudheath. The Knutsford to Altrincham 88 was 57 minutes end to end. Now 1 hour 10. Macclesfield to Knutsford is now 6 minutes longer than when Howards ran it. The average difference is D&G add around 10-15% padding on each route. The longer a bus journey is and more it sits around, the less people want to use it.

 

[ShaunyFlynn]

I know is this across the border, but I noticed that Arriva aren’t running the Altrincham locals. Are Little Gem still running them till the end of the week?

 

[Djb1]

I know is this across the border, but I noticed that Arriva aren’t running the Altrincham locals. Are Little Gem still running them till the end of the week?

Yes. Until tomorrow according to tfgm.com

 

[pemma]

As for productivity, D&G will often win a contract on face value and then go back to the council a few months later and say they need more running time and so either the council should pay up more money to cover additional resources or cuts should be made to accommodate it. So many contracts get taken on by D&G at a higher frequency and on a half decent timetable only to be ruined a few months later when the cuts come in.

The withdrawn 300 and current 88 is a good example.

The 300 (Knutsford circular) daytime journeys were commercial and required a PVR of 1. When Aldi was being constructed it delayed services and D&G added in extra time to the timetable and withdrew the Lilac Avenue extension from alternate journeys. That still meant a PVR of 1 but with longer journey times and a reduced frequency on one part of the route. They kept in the extra 3 minutes even after the construction work on Aldi was completed.

A half-hourly 88 serving Wilmslow station using a PVR of 4 didn't work. GHA frequently cancelled journeys to get vehicles back on schedule, while Arriva often ran journeys almost half an hour late meaning there was one bus just ahead of the next. Cheshire East contracted the service with a PVR of 5 and a 15 minute turnaround in Knutsford and 5 minutes at Altrincham. However, when it came to their bus review they thought that was wasteful, especially when they also had a contracted 27 with long layovers at Macclesfield.

When the 300 and short lived 88A were cancelled, the 88 was re-routed around Longridge. It didn't need any extra time added to the total journey time but D&G added in extra time. Removing a couple of minutes from the Morley Green to Wilmslow time (where services frequently get ahead of schedule) and adding it in between Mobberley and Knutsford would have worked.

They also have a reputation of reducing the peak time frequency by extending journey times when it's not needed. The 15:55 Altrincham to Macclesfield does not need half-an-hour to get from Longridge to Radbrook Hall!

 

[LOL The Irony]

They also have a reputation of reducing the peak time frequency by extending journey times when it's not needed. The 15:55 Altrincham to Macclesfield does not need half-an-hour to get from Longridge to Radbrook Hall!

That's nothing. The first bus to Knutsford of the day, only runs from Wilmslow, leaves at exactly 06:30 and is timed to take 35 minutes to reach the bus station. The best part is, 10 of those minutes is taken up by the journey from the Falcon Barer to the bus station - a journey that only takes 10 minutes on a really bad day.

 

[pemma]

The best part is, 10 of those minutes is taken up by the journey from the Falcon Barer to the bus station - a journey that only takes 10 minutes on a really bad day.

Like I said already it was 7 minutes on the 300 before D&G added in 3 extra minutes to allow for the delays caused by the construction of Aldi. Now that's complete the journey time should be quicker than it originally was in the Longridge bound direction, as there's now a filter on the traffic lights on the A537, at the B5085 junction.

Checking bus times the 06:30 Wilmslow to Knutsford took 8 minutes from Longridge to the bus station this morning, 6 minutes yesterday and 7 minutes on Tuesday. There are roadworks on Manor Park North at present though which may add a minute to the journey time.

It's not uncommon for the driver of the last Knutsford bound bus to leave Longridge 5 minutes early and arrive at the bus station 10 minutes early.

 

[ShaunyFlynn]

Roadworks starting at Broken Cross & Knutsford on the 30th August for 22-26 weeks. This will mean that the 130 & 88 will probably be severely delayed, especially the 88.

 

[pemma]

Roadworks starting at Broken Cross & Knutsford on the 30th August for 22-26 weeks. This will mean that the 130 & 88 will probably be severely delayed, especially the 88.

I can't see that on One Network. I can see a number of separate roadworks:

25-26 Aug Chelford United Utilities works
1-14 Sep Henbury work being undertaken on behalf of gas company
10-18 Oct Knutsford work being undertaken on behalf of electricity company
9 Nov - 9 Dec Henbury property developer undertaking works related to new junction

There's also patching and road line painting works. Some sections have dates TBC (no later than 31 March 2023), other sections have dates confirmed which start as soon as tomorrow. The sections which have dates show them as lasting for 2 days.

There's also various road closures in the villages south of the A537, which will lead to traffic being diverted on to the A537.

 

[ShaunyFlynn]

I can't see that on One Network. I can see a number of separate roadworks:

There is a sign at Broken Cross stating that the roadworks start on the 30th for 22 or 26 weeks.

The roundabout at Broken Cross is being taken out and being replaced by a 4-way traffic light system.