Chester Station to City Centre Free Bus Ends on November 21

[Dolge]

The service was originally free only if you produced a rail ticket but that requirement was dropped a couple of years ago.

The new service is not being provided by Arriva but by a company called Aintree Coachlines, unknown to me.

Welsh bus passes will not be valid, as already explained; there is now a notice on the station to this effect.

I think it's an entirely retrograde step. The buses are very well used, indeed could do with more capacity, charging for a probably inferior service is a further degradation of public space and services. But CWAC, as stated, have always been appalling in their support for public transport and buses in particular - they have only ever been interested in park and ride for motorists which they subsidise heavily.

Incidentally the bus garage, formerly opposite Chester station, which has been mentioned, provides the key to understanding the whole process by which the municipal bus operation was kept going when the council obviously had no interest in it, and the eventual fudged and chaotic disposal - it was an extremely valuable site.

And yes, bus connections from Chester station are poor, apart from Arriva's Welsh services - no direct service to the bus exchange, university and Blacon being the most obvious and easily dealt with problem.

Richard Atkinson

 

[Tracky]

Chester needs its tram system re-instating....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The new service is not being provided by Arriva but by a company called Aintree Coachlines, unknown to me.

The HQ of the North West division of Arriva Buses is in Aintree.
Coincidence?

(Arriva Wales Buses split off recently with HQ in Llandudno Junction).

 

[merlodlliw]

The HQ of the North West division of Arriva Buses is in Aintree.
Coincidence?

(Arriva Wales Buses split off recently with HQ in Llandudno Junction).

Saw one of these Aintree mini buses in Chester last week, on the Birkenhead route.

also got this from a colleague

CHANGES TO FREE CHESTER CITY RAIL LINK BUS


From November 21st the free City Rail Link bus will start charging £1 each way for adults.
This service will operate between Chester Station and the city centre.
On the new service up to 2 children will be able to travel free if travelling with an adult, otherwise the fare will be 65p. Free or reduced fare travel will be available for those customers who are eligible and have valid concessionary travel.


My point is if people get the train from Ruabon to Chester then they cannot use a welsh bus pass to go from the station to the town.(Tracky)
you are probably correct, but they would use the free Welsh bus to Frodsham st from Wrexham anyhow.

 

[142094]

Depends on how much the local authority is giving the bus company per concessionary pass used, and what the split is between fare-paying passengers and pass users.

The freecitybus in Leeds has gone the same way - used to be free but now it isn't.

 

[pemma]

The HQ of the North West division of Arriva Buses is in Aintree.
Coincidence?

(Arriva Wales Buses split off recently with HQ in Llandudno Junction).

Aintree Coachlines don't actually have an Aintree address but a Maghull address.

This livery: http://modelbuszone.co.uk/cmnl/dd/6000/img/ukbus0027_3.jpg suggests they have been around for 25 years. The second North Western Road Car Co. was set up around 25 years ago, so could it have been one of their sub-brands?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I assume the ticket barriers don't retain tickets then?

I went to Chester soon after the barriers were installed. I must have heard about 10 people asking about the free bus in one minute and the response from the Arriva staff was that you don't need a ticket for the bus anymore, even though Merseyrail told passengers they did need to retain their ticket.

At times when the barriers weren't in operation some bus drivers did still charge passengers who didn't produce a rail ticket or a bus pass. However, at busy times everyone travelled for free, whether they'd used the train or not.

 

[45689ajax]

Chester needs its tram system re-instating....

The stuff that dreams are made of.

 

[HH]

as witnessed by their predecessors selling their local bus operator to First of all people !

First paid them a very good price - more than the run down company was worth. I'd say that was a smart move.

 

[Statto]

Aintree Coachlines don't actually have an Aintree address but a Maghull address.

This livery: http://modelbuszone.co.uk/cmnl/dd/6000/img/ukbus0027_3.jpg suggests they have been around for 25 years. The second North Western Road Car Co. was set up around 25 years ago, so could it have been one of their sub-brands?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I went to Chester soon after the barriers were installed. I must have heard about 10 people asking about the free bus in one minute and the response from the Arriva staff was that you don't need a ticket for the bus anymore, even though Merseyrail told passengers they did need to retain their ticket.

At times when the barriers weren't in operation some bus drivers did still charge passengers who didn't produce a rail ticket or a bus pass. However, at busy times everyone travelled for free, whether they'd used the train or not.

Aintree Coachlines also own Helms of Eastham based at Hooton, who operate services in Cheshire, & think some Helms services are under Aintree Coachline regerstration with Vosa.

 

[pemma]

Aintree Coachlines also own Helms of Eastham based at Hooton, who operate services in Cheshire, & think some Helms services are under Aintree Coachline regerstration with Vosa.

I wonder if they are trying to do like GHA, who use both the GHA and Vale Travel names for different bus routes, possibly to try and prevent people from going too far on day tickets. GHA operate two routes in Knutsford - one route 289 Northwich-Knutsford-Bowdon-Altrincham is a GHA route, the other route 88 Knutsford-Wilmslow-Altrincham is a Vale Travel route.

 

[buses7675]

I think this service is being run by Aintree Coachline's Helms of Eastham division which has a depot just north of Hooton Railway Station.

The company is however nothing to do with Arriva or its predecessors and was set up as an independent coach company in Aintree just over 25 years ago.

I heard, true or not, that the council/railways were still intending to run this service as a 'free' contract but Aintree Coachline registered it as a commercial service instead. Due to how bus tendering rules work a local council cannot run a subsidised route that would be in competition with a commercial one.

How true it is (that ACL chose to run it, thus stopping the contract) I don't know but there is much discusion on this change on my website http://dartslf.com/forum/

 

[merlodlliw]

more info here. Chester free bus no more - report by Dave Sallery

in this weeks http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

 

[pemma]

more info here. Chester free bus no more - report by Dave Sallery

in this weeks http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

It was said earlier up the thread that funding was provided by a combination of the council, Arriva Trains Wales, Merseyrail, Northern Rail and Virgin Trains. Have the rail companies withdrawn funding too or is the rail operator funding stopping it from being something like £1.90 single.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They've released a Press Release: http://www.mcrua.org.uk/chairmansbl...HANGES-TO-FREE-CHESTER-CITY-RAIL-LINK-BUS.doc

The jist of it is that Aintree Coachlines have applied to run the service commercially and the council expects to have to provide £38,000 extra in funding per annum compared to the free bus due to having to pay for all the over 60s passes and not having the TOCs' subsidies to fund the bus.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The jist of it is that Aintree Coachlines have applied to run the service commercially and the council expects to have to provide £38,000 extra in funding per annum compared to the free bus due to having to pay for all the over 60s passes and not having the TOCs' subsidies to fund the bus.

If you look again at the numbers, £38K is what the Council currently pay, and in the future it will be c£100K!
They (and the TOCs) would happily continue to fund the free service but the law prevents it.
The only winner here seem to be the Aintree Coachlines bus company.
It's a bit like a TOC ORCATS raid!

 

[John55]

It is not true that the bus company is the only winner. The 4 train operators will no longer pay any subsidy for the bus service so they are better off by whatever fraction of the total subsidy they would have paid.

It is true that the local authority has a problem as the unfair nature of the English free travel for OAPs scheme stings a council like Chester and West Cheshire.

 

[raildude]

It is not true that the bus company is the only winner. The 4 train operators will no longer pay any subsidy for the bus service so they are better off by whatever fraction of the total subsidy they would have paid.

It is true that the local authority has a problem as the unfair nature of the English free travel for OAPs scheme stings a council like Chester and West Cheshire.

What about the loss of rail customers that will potentially occur?

People are very easily put off from rail travel even by minor inconveniences. I imagine that TOCs may see a slight drop in revenue for journeys to Chester, especially those that aren't quite old enough for a free pass, but still getting on a bit (the ones with disposable income!).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Manchester, Stockport, Bolton, Middlesbrough, Leeds and Huddersfield are six areas with free bus services from their railway stations that immediately spring to my mind, so why should Chester be any different?

 

[pemma]

I think there seems to be a legal loophole that needs to be shut down. Stagecoach have taken advantage of the subsided routes not competing with commercial services rule to put local operators out of business, while now it looks like free bus services have to be withdrawn because an operator wants to run a fare paying route.

I thought a rule was brought in whereby a bus service can be designated as a 'tourist route' it means over 60s can be denied free travel unless they are from the local area. I know Blackpool council were heavily pushing for one and I thought it had been approved.

 

[142094]

Manchester, Stockport, Bolton, Middlesbrough, Leeds and Huddersfield are six areas with free bus services from their railway stations that immediately spring to my mind, so why should Chester be any different?

Leeds doesn't anymore, it and Huddersfield were paid for by the PTE, which has transport and not profits at the heart of the company.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Correct me if I'm wrong but all the Arriva buses into Wales i.e 1, 3, 4, 11 and X44 swing via Frodsham St anyway after leaving the station. The same route as the shuttle bus.

So does Section 63 of Transport act 85 only cover whole routes not part routes?

 

[185]

Bit of common sense - if First were after a huge wad of money to run the service, bin them. Find a small operator who will do it for a fraction of the price.

As a huge chunk of customers arriving at Chester Rail Station are Arriva and Virgin's customers, why can't they put their hand in their pocket and part fund it, or are they too shortsighted and tight-fisted?

 

[merlodlliw]

Correct me if I'm wrong but all the Arriva buses into Wales i.e 1, 3, 4, 11 and X44 swing via Frodsham St anyway after leaving the station. The same route as the shuttle bus.

So does Section 63 of Transport act 85 only cover whole routes not part routes?

Correct, Welsh bus passes allow drop off at Frodsham St on leaving Chester Station, if on the 1 route from Wrexham just stay on board & use your pin again from the station to Frodsham street if using an all Wales bus pass(issued by WCBC or FCC Councils only) its the same route as the shuttle bus, The ticket given by the buses ticket machine is from Taith and just marks the buses route number not destination, ie Chester to Wrexham/Mold and allows get off at any stop in England the bus passes through. All 22 Welsh Councils have differing free bus pass destinations when boarding England bound buses, IE Wrexham Allows to from Chester/Whitchurch/Oswestry)


Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bit of common sense - if First were after a huge wad of money to run the service, bin them. Find a small operator who will do it for a fraction of the price.

As a huge chunk of customers arriving at Chester Rail Station are Arriva and Virgin's customers, why can't they put their hand in their pocket and part fund it, or are they too shortsighted and tight-fisted?

A very big chunk arrive on Merseyrail & many on Northern trains into Chester.

see this weeks http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm for more news, Marked Free bus Fiasco


Bob

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Correct, Welsh bus passes allow drop off at Frodsham St on leaving Chester Station, if on the 1 route from Wrexham just stay on board & use your pin again from the station to Frodsham street if using an all Wales bus pass(issued by WCBC or FCC Councils only) its the same route as the shuttle bus, The ticket given by the buses ticket machine is from Taith and just marks the buses route number not destination, ie Chester to Wrexham/Mold and allows get off at any stop in England the bus passes through.
Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A very big chunk arrive on Merseyrail & many on Northern trains into Chester


Bob

I think this is the first "postcode lottery" I have discovered within Wales!
I have a Denbighshire bus pass and was not aware of the Wrexham/Flints extra concession.
To be pedantic, the Arriva city stop is in Foregate St and further from the centre than the shuttle stop (though nearer M&S!), and might count as a different place in bus-speak.
The return stop is even further down Foregate St because of the one-way system.
There are about 12 per hour from the station, 5 towards Wrexham and 6 towards Mold, plus odd other routes (although I notice the X94 to Barmouth seems to have been cut back to Wrexham again).

I heard Ben Davies of Arriva say once that Merseyrail delivers more visitors to Chester than any other TOC.

 

[merlodlliw]

I think this is the first "postcode lottery" I have discovered within Wales!
I have a Denbighshire bus pass and was not aware of the Wrexham/Flints extra concession.
To be pedantic, the Arriva city stop is in Foregate St and further from the centre than the shuttle stop (though nearer M&S!), and might count as a different place in bus-speak.
The return stop is even further down Foregate St because of the one-way system.
There are about 12 per hour from the station, 5 towards Wrexham and 6 towards Mold, plus odd other routes (although I notice the X94 to Barmouth seems to have been cut back to Wrexham again).
I heard Ben Davies of Arriva say once that Merseyrail delivers more visitors to Chester than any other TOC.

Ah yes Foregate St, I always get the two confused, yes a post code lottery,this applies to any Welsh County bordering England, Denbighshire is land locked,however with your Denbigh pass I dont see why you can not board the (One) from Wrexham to Chester, the taith machine will spew out a ticket, but I bet on the return from Chester Station it will be blocked until Rossett.

I also agree Merseyrail is Chesters biggest passenger toc carrier, & yes X94 is to Wrexham only, this service is always full on leaving Wrexham,with day trippers having a few hours in Barmouth with free travel, On another point, residents in WCBC who have GPs in England(nearest) have a special prescription ticket made out, so the medicine is dispensed free,yet those who use the same GP & Chemist in England have to pay.


Bob

 

[Gareth Marston]

every train i see into chester is busy its just Merseyrail have 4 tph to Liverpool and are more frequent than any other route.

 

[merlodlliw]

every train i see into chester is busy its just Merseyrail have 4 tph to Liverpool and are more frequent than any other route.

agree.

Bob

 

[pemma]

One of the councillors has spoken out against the changes and referred to the 'new' buses as ugly. Aintree Coachlines have responded this way: http://www.mcrua.org.uk/chairmansblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2012-01-18_16.30.jpg

 

[merlodlliw]

One of the councillors has spoken out against the changes and referred to the 'new' buses as ugly. Aintree Coachlines have responded this way: http://www.mcrua.org.uk/chairmansblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2012-01-18_16.30.jpg

I take it this bus does not actually run with the caption about the Cllr,most amusing/

Bob

 

[Polarbear]

Aintree Coachlines/Helms of Eastham must think there is money to be had out of this operation. They usually run 2 vehicles down from the Wirral to Chester each day to operate the rail-link service. One of these is often an Enviro 400 which has way more capacity than I suspect is actually needed. hock:

I recall some years back when the then Cheshire County Council was forced to withdraw service X3 between Chester & Manchester. This was a useful service as it ran Chester - Ellesmere Port - Ince - Runcorn - Manchester Airport - Wythenshaw - Manchester. First threatened legal action as it "competed" against their Chester - Ellesmere port services, despite the X3 running at best every 2 hours & First running about 8 buses an hour between the two points at that time!

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

I think it's fair to say that I had a good giggle at that image... It isn't really that ugly is it?