Clapham Junction Platform 17 gap

[gray1404]

I have traveled getting off a train from Milton Keynes Central at Clapham Junction platform 17 a few times now. It is the biggest gap between the train doors and the platform I've ever seen. It took me by surprise and I thought it was quite dangerous with serious possibility for injury.

 

[TheNewNo2]

I always dislike the platform gap at Nailsea and Backwell - it's a significant step up even to a Sprinter.

 

[Antman]

I have traveled getting off a train from Milton Keynes Central at Clapham Junction platform 17 a few times now. It is the biggest gap between the train doors and the platform I've ever seen. It took me by surprise and I thought it was quite dangerous with serious possibility for injury.

It is potentially dangerous but what can reasonably be done about it?

I think the one at Lewisham is just as bad.

 

[ComUtoR]

It is potentially dangerous but what can reasonably be done about it?

Remedial measures have been highlighted in various RAIB reports about platform gaps.

 

[another smith]

Yes platform 17 is a bad one but I've always found the gap at Wandsworth Town between the train and platform ridiculous.

 

[Alan White]

I recently alighted at Clapham Junction (I don't recall the platform) from a Southern service from Victoria. As we arrived there were "mind the gap" warnings so when the doors opened I looked for the gap but didn't see one so stepped off. Only then did I realise that the gap was an unusually large vertical one. I landed heavily but luckily without injury.

This was the first and only time I've heard "mind the gap" refer to a vertical displacement rather than a horizontal one, and I'm amazed that there isn't a standard for the height of a platform and the height of the carriage floor.

 

[transmanche]

It is potentially dangerous but what can reasonably be done about it?

[youtube]aJUMYPqVKGA?[/youtube]

 

[Bletchleyite]

Folding steps on trains are also a possible option.

 

[Deepgreen]

[youtube]aJUMYPqVKGA?[/youtube]

Platform 15 also had a huge (and varying) step/gap before it was re-built recently to raise the level and reduce the issue. Platform 17 could be similarly treated.

 

[Lockwood]

I'm amazed that there isn't a standard for the height of a platform and the height of the carriage floor.

Uxbridge et al, albeit on the Underground, had a good step down to the Picc stock and a good step up to A stock.

 

[philjo]

Hampton Court platforms are very low considering the number of occasional visitors there. There is an automated announcement on board telling you to be aware of the "step down between the train and the platform"

 

[transmanche]

Uxbridge et al, albeit on the Underground, had a good step down to the Picc stock and a good step up to A stock.

As I'm sure you had guessed, a 'compromise height' needs to be used at platforms that are served by both sub-surface and tube stock.

 

[jopsuk]

I'm amazed that there isn't a standard for the height of a platform and the height of the carriage floor.

There is. Platforms like this were built before the standards were brought in. There are thousands of non-compliant platforms. They get sorted if there's an opportunity to do so. but the platform basically has to be out of use during the work, as does the line through the platform.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I recently alighted at Clapham Junction (I don't recall the platform) from a Southern service from Victoria. As we arrived there were "mind the gap" warnings so when the doors opened I looked for the gap but didn't see one so stepped off. Only then did I realise that the gap was an unusually large vertical one. I landed heavily but luckily without injury.

This was the first and only time I've heard "mind the gap" refer to a vertical displacement rather than a horizontal one, and I'm amazed that there isn't a standard for the height of a platform and the height of the carriage floor.

I find that the vertical gap at Kew Bridge to be almost dangerous and some elderly passengers find the step very difficult and have to be helped.

I can see how gaps caused by curved platforms might be difficult/impossible to remedy but there should be no excuse for excessive vertical gaps. I know this route takes quite a bit of fright but the train clearance heights can't be that different? Can they?

 

[gordonthemoron]

Seascale is dreadful, at least on the platform away from the sea (haven't been on the other one for ages)

 

[philjo]

Some of the new platforms have large gaps - e.g. platforms 7 & 8 at Cambridge have a significant step from 365s. also the new platforms at Blackfriars have a bit of a step down.

 

[hassaanhc]

I recently alighted at Clapham Junction (I don't recall the platform) from a Southern service from Victoria. As we arrived there were "mind the gap" warnings so when the doors opened I looked for the gap but didn't see one so stepped off. Only then did I realise that the gap was an unusually large vertical one. I landed heavily but luckily without injury.

This was the first and only time I've heard "mind the gap" refer to a vertical displacement rather than a horizontal one, and I'm amazed that there isn't a standard for the height of a platform and the height of the carriage floor.

Platform 15 also had a huge (and varying) step/gap before it was re-built recently to raise the level and reduce the issue. Platform 17 could be similarly treated.

Much of Platform 12 still has a very old brick-lined edge that often has weeds growing between the bricks, and also is low. It is bad enough with a 377, but with a 442 it is absolutely horrible.

Yes platform 17 is a bad one but I've always found the gap at Wandsworth Town between the train and platform ridiculous.

I find that the vertical gap at Kew Bridge to be almost dangerous and some elderly passengers find the step very difficult and have to be helped.

I can see how gaps caused by curved platforms might be difficult/impossible to remedy but there should be no excuse for excessive vertical gaps. I know this route takes quite a bit of fright but the train clearance heights can't be that different? Can they?

Wandsworth Town has had the height of the platforms increased in the last few years.

Nearby Queenstown Road Battersea had a very low platform too, also with a brick-lined edge like Clapham Junction P12 mentioned above, but between February and June the height of the platforms were increased. Chiswick also has a similar edge for parts of both platforms.


South West Trains 450570 on the 2022 London Waterloo to Weybridge by Hassaan Chaudhry, on Flickr

Kew Bridge is indeed one I've seen moaned about, especially the last 2-3 car lengths of the down platform. In fact the 4-6 and 8-10 car stops have been positioned further than necessary to avoid stopping in the lowest bit as far as possible.

Last year Norbiton had its platform height increased, and much of the platform is also on a curve.

At Selhurst the slow line platforms as well as the Down Fast had their height increased in 2013 or so, but the Up Fast platform remains low. It also has quite a dip right on the edge at one point . I'd love to board or alight from a train there :P.

Away from third rail land, Southall and Ealing Broadway's platforms are low. Bad enough on the straight platforms at Ealing Broadway, and the main line platforms at Southall. But P4 (Up Relief) at Southall is low, combined with a curve with the track canted away from the platform. Always see people struggling to board there. Just as well the 360s here have a larger step board than other Desiros with 20m length coaches.

 

[TheNewNo2]

While moving platforms might seem like a good idea in principle, I think in practice they would likely cause accidents. After all, people don't pay attention to "stay behind the yellow line" at the best of times. With PEDs it would work, but if you had PEDs you probably have tight clearances anyway.

 

[transmanche]

While moving platforms might seem like a good idea in principle, I think in practice they would likely cause accidents.

How many accidents are there at Union Square station on the New York Subway? Is overall safety increased or decreased by installing a extending platform edge, compared to the alternative of doing nothing? Would there be more or fewer accidents on such a device compared to, say, people stepping on or off an escalator?

Although it may not be clear in the video up-thread, you can stand on the whole of the platform - even while the movable platform operates. The warning signs are really to warn you not to let anything dangle over the platform edge.

In this example from Hong Kong, you can clearly see the extension part comes out from underneath the platform surface:

 

[najaB]

I have traveled getting off a train from Milton Keynes Central at Clapham Junction platform 17 a few times now. It is the biggest gap between the train doors and the platform I've ever seen. It took me by surprise and I thought it was quite dangerous with serious possibility for injury.

Dunkeld (or is it Pitlochry?) has pretty low platforms. Due to the curve, the gap can be quite large at Perth on platform 2. Dundee 2 and 3 are a fairly large step down as well.

 

[t0ffeeman]

had to set down there the other day. people do take notice when you say there is an amazingly huge gap rather than the standard. h announcements definitely need some superlatives!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

While moving platforms might seem like a good idea in principle, I think in practice they would likely cause accidents. After all, people don't pay attention to "stay behind the yellow line" at the best of times. With PEDs it would work, but if you had PEDs you probably have tight clearances anyway.

PEDs also are only any good for platforms where all trains are the same or similar. This of course is also why level boarding is so unusual.

The DC lines between Queens Park and Harrow and Wealdstone always amused me, with the unusual situation of stepping down into a Bakerloo line train!

 

[Dr_Paul]

Last year Norbiton had its platform height increased, and much of the platform is also on a curve.

The up platform at Norbiton used to be terrible; a big gap and a high step upwards, as the station is on quite a curve and the track is heavily canted. I'm glad it's been attended to.

 

[cactustwirly]

Worcester Foregate Street has quite a large gap, especially when there is a HST in the platform

 

[bussnapperwm]

One of the stations on the Cumbrian coast line has about a two foot hight difference between the platform and the doors of the locomotive hauled sets

 

[Class 170101]

Dunkeld (or is it Pitlochry?) has pretty low platforms. Due to the curve, the gap can be quite large at Perth on platform 2. Dundee 2 and 3 are a fairly large step down as well.

Dunkeld is low with steps provided.

 

[D6975]

One of the stations on the Cumbrian coast line has about a two foot hight difference between the platform and the doors of the locomotive hauled sets

Probably Greystones. But there are loads of low platforms round the Cumbrian coast. Most of them have little rubberised ramp thingys to line up with one set of doors. Otherwise getting an electric wheelchair on/off would be nigh on impossible.

 

[tsr]

Warnham and to some extent Ockley have very large gaps and steps on their Up Platforms. This is particularly noticeable with Class 455 cab access.

 

[duffers2324]

i think the platforms at Partick can be a little dodgy its not so much the height but its more of the cant of the train in the station because the station is on a curve, you have to watch getting on at platform 2 as it is a step up to the train but with platform 1 it is a slight step down, miss at platform 2 tho and your leg could easily get stuck between train and platform.

 

[47271]

Dunkeld is my local station and, for a busy enough (30k+ pax pa) stop on the Highland Main Line, including sleepers and the occasional East Coast, is a shocker. The reason apparently is the closeness to the platform edge of the listed station building, although I've seen other locations where this has been easily dealt with by a railing protecting the height difference.

The situation should be brought to a head within the next few years since the A9 road dualling, literally a few feet from the station, should force modern accessibility standards on the site, last considered in the early 1970s.

I can jump on and off fine but one thing I've learned from complaining about this on behalf of the less fit: a couple of years ago Scotrail replied that they'd arrange a taxi from or to Pitlochry or Perth if required: bear this in mind if you're disadvantaged by low platforms.