Class 141s - How far from Yorkshire did they get?

[61653 HTAFC]

Not including Iran or Dutch dockyards, before any smart-alecs get any ideas!

The much maligned and not-at-all-missed 141 units spent their lives working from Neville Hill depot in Leeds, and were regular traction on many local services around West Yorkshire and surrounding areas for the best part of two decades... I'm aware that they made it to York-Hull runs quite regularly as well as being a staple of the Penistone line and Leeds-Sheffield services via both Wakefield stations... but as far as I can remember I don't recall ever riding or seeing one west of the Pennines via either Standedge or the Calder Valley.

So, other than trips to/from Derby works for building and refurbishment, how far did they get from their home territory? I've heard talk of Scarborough seeing them on occasion but can't think of anywhere further afield...

Any contributions much appreciated!

EDIT: Post-withdrawal preservation examples not included either!

 

[Darandio]

They certainly worked the old Darlington to York services, not sure of anything further north.

 

[theblackwatch]

I saw one appear at Manchester Piccadilly on a 'vice' service from Huddersfield after a Trans Pennine service was cancelled one evening. All the units went to Kilmarnock for rebuilding from Class 141/0 to 141/1, and 141108 made it further north to Inverness.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I saw one appear at Manchester Piccadilly on a 'vice' service from Huddersfield after a Trans Pennine service was cancelled one evening. All the units went to Kilmarnock for rebuilding from Class 141/0 to 141/1, and 141108 made it further north to Inverness.

Do you know the reasoning behind this sojourn to the Highland Capital? I'd assumed the rebuild was done at Derby. So far then we've got Darlington and Manchester Piccadilly, I'd imagine Morecambe would be semi-likely from Leeds, though such a long run on jointed track would be lively to say the least!

 

[Failed Unit]

Regulars into Lincoln. Don't recall seeing any in Cleethorpes.

 

[Helvellyn]

Does Workington count?

http://thumbs4.picclick.com/d/w1600...-Class-141-Bodies-Leyland-Workington-1983.jpg


Pre-refurbishment at Kilmarnock.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7324/10945033224_feb1fedce2_b.jpg

 

[Cowley]

Great photos from Helvellyn. Were they delivered in that blue and grey scheme?

 

[theblackwatch]

Great photos from Helvellyn. Were they delivered in that blue and grey scheme?

The first five sets came out of Derby in those colours, but didn't run in that livery in passenger service. 141001 remained in that livery until it went to Kilmarnock for refurb - it spent several years in store at Holbeck (with 140001 for company).

 

[LowLevel]

They made it to Chesterfield on the peak RRNE services as seen here -

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dwbphotos/23118212105

 

[sprinterguy]

They certainly worked the old Darlington to York services, not sure of anything further north.

A photo of Ian Carr's taken at Hall Dene shows that class 141s were used on timing trials between Leeds and Hexham via the Durham Coast during early 1985, prior to the introduction of class 143s in the North East.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Was having a bit of a brain-fart in thinking they were built at Derby rather than Workington- it was of course the 144s that were constructed at Derby, though I think some 141s underwent testing at the RTC.

Seeing one in blue & grey reminds me of the mk1 that was rebodied by Leyland as a trial!

 

[Cowley]

Was having a bit of a brain-fart in thinking they were built at Derby rather than Workington- it was of course the 144s that were constructed at Derby, though I think some 141s underwent testing at the RTC.

Seeing one in blue & grey reminds me of the mk1 that was rebodied by Leyland as a trial!

I never went on a 141. Were they very different to 142s/143s etc?
I quite like that blue and grey I must say.

 

[randyrippley]

I've never seen one at Lancaster or Morecambe, but thats not to say one never got across. I do have a vague memory of seeing a green painted one at Manchester Victoria

 

[Ash Bridge]

I never went on a 141. Were they very different to 142s/143s etc?
I quite like that blue and grey I must say.

Most noticeable difference is that they were considerably slimmer, infact not much wider than a bus, not sure if they weren't also lower powered too.

 

[Cowley]

Most noticeable difference is that they were considerably slimmer, infact not much wider than a bus, not sure if they weren't also lower powered too.

They certainly look very bussy (is that a word?).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most noticeable difference is that they were considerably slimmer, infact not much wider than a bus, not sure if they weren't also lower powered too.

They were AIUI the width of a bus - specifically, the Leyland National on which they were based. The 142 used modified panels for a greater width.

 

[sprinterguy]

I never went on a 141. Were they very different to 142s/143s etc?

They had only one passenger door per side per vehicle, towards the centre of the bodyside, and forward of this featured longitudinal seating. Due to the narrower width of the units, 2+2 bus benches were used in the main saloon rather than the 3+2 arrangement found in Pacer classes 142 - 144.

Here's a picture of the interior of the restored unit to be found at the Midland Railway, Butterley:
http://llangollenrailcars.co.uk/extra/images/Class141/55513/Class141_08_55513_KarlLatham.jpg

The units were also known to be chronically unreliable, even beyond the issues faced with the class 142s and 143s when new. Issues with stretching brake cables making the brakes ineffective, I seem to recall being mentioned.

I quite like that blue and grey I must say.

It's worth noting that the shade of blue applied to these units was reportedly that of Barrow Corporation, rather than the correct (but virtually indistinguishable, IMO) rail blue.

 

[DarloRich]

Did they not make it all the way to Iran?

I certainly saw them on occasion at Darlington. I still find it odd they weren't kept, at least a bit longer. Surely Northern could have done with the extra capacity, even then.

 

[theblackwatch]

Was having a bit of a brain-fart in thinking they were built at Derby rather than Workington- it was of course the 144s that were constructed at Derby, though I think some 141s underwent testing at the RTC.

Seeing one in blue & grey reminds me of the mk1 that was rebodied by Leyland as a trial!

The bodyshells were built at Workington but they were all delivered from Derby - I suspect the body/underframe were put together at Derby, but can't remember for sure.

 

[Bertie the bus]

They had a regular turn to Blackpool North at one time.

A photo of one at Preston.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishrail1980sand1990s/24873619810/in/album-72157663469695276/

 

[djpontrack]

I only managed to travel on 7 class 141's and they were all in Yorkshire. I've not heard of any appearing on Morecambe services but I've only lived here since 2008. When I'm back at work next week I will ask my colleague who is a local and an enthusiast if he has seen one here.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I never went on a 141. Were they very different to 142s/143s etc?
I quite like that blue and grey I must say.

In addition to the accurate descriptions given by other posters, they also had crew entry slam doors behind the cabs- passengers were not permitted to use these doors, but the only obstacle preventing it was a steel tube section which slotted into brackets attached to the (sort-of) bulkhead. This looked like an afterthought. The original seat fabric was a rather nice blue & silver pattern, and most retained this. The photo provided by Sprinterguy will be one of a handful which were fitted with modified gearboxes as a test-bed for a 142 modification, as the 142 seat covers were done at the same time. All 142s received the upgrade but no further 141s were treated. IIRC only one of the ones preserved in Britain was an unmodified example.

 

[fowler9]

Does Iran count? That is quite far from Yorkshire. Also isn't there one on the Llangollen Railway?

 

[Cowley]

Interesting stuff. I'm slightly embarrassed to say I didn't or had forgotten that there was a preserved one. Does it work and are there any others preserved? I suppose I could look it up actually but I've got to go and chop some wood up.
They do look quite a bit narrower inside that's for sure

 

[Darandio]

Does Iran count? That is quite far from Yorkshire. Also isn't there one on the Llangollen Railway?

Not if you read the bold bit at the very start of the first post.

 

[fowler9]

Not if you read the bold bit at the very start of the first post.

Forgive me, I never learned to read!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The 141s definitely made it to Scarborough on occasion and I too have heard of one turning up at Manchester Piccadilly vice 158. As they were regulars on peak workings to Hebden Bridge I'll be surprised if one hasn't run to a Manchester Victoria via Todmorden, or even Lime Street on one of the hourly all-stations York-Liverpool via Bradford services that used to run until the mid-late 1990s.
I'd be interested to know if they ever operated on the S&C to Carlisle. Given only Yorkshire crews signed them it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility, especially as the booked 156 was often strengthened with a 144 on summer dates and 141s were similarly compatible.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The 141s definitely made it to Scarborough on occasion and I too have heard of one turning up at Manchester Piccadilly vice 158. As they were regulars on peak workings to Hebden Bridge I'll be surprised if one hasn't run to a Manchester Victoria via Todmorden, or even Lime Street on one of the hourly all-stations York-Liverpool via Bradford services that used to run until the mid-late 1990s.
I'd be interested to know if they ever operated on the S&C to Carlisle. Given only Yorkshire crews signed them it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility, especially as the booked 156 was often strengthened with a 144 on summer dates and 141s were similarly compatible.

I'd assume that Morecambe would be more likely than Carlisle, but either is feasible whether or not it actually happened. One thing to note is that in 141/0 form they were unable to multiple with anything but their classmates. BSI couplers were fitted at refurbishment which allowed them to work with all 14x/15x units.

 

[sprinterguy]

Interesting stuff. I'm slightly embarrassed to say I didn't or had forgotten that there was a preserved one. Does it work and are there any others preserved? I suppose I could look it up actually but I've got to go and chop some wood up.

There's a few preserved examples:

141103 at the Weardale Railway
141108 at the Colne Valley Railway, but currently up for sale.
141113 at the Midland Railway, Butterley.

All are operational. 141110 was also preserved at the Weardale Railway alongside 141103, but has been broken up for spares to keep the latter unit running.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The original seat fabric was a rather nice blue & silver pattern, and most retained this. The photo provided by Sprinterguy will be one of a handful which were fitted with modified gearboxes as a test-bed for a 142 modification, as the 142 seat covers were done at the same time.

That's interesting, I didn't know that; I had assumed that the 141s were all fitted with the same brown/orange/blue seat moquette from new that classes 142 - 144 all sported, as I'm too young to have known the 141s when new.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also isn't there one on the Llangollen Railway?

141113 is owned by the Llangollen Railcar Group, but currently based at the Midland Railway Butterley. I recall seeing the 141-alike single car Leyland prototype, RB004, at the Llangollen Railway a few years ago, but apparently it's been moved since.

 

[D1009]

Not outside Yorkshire, but I remember one Sunday travelling from Doncaster to Leeds when following the cancellation of a KX-Leeds train, a 141 was used to provide a connection off a KX-Edinburgh at Doncaster. After departing Doncaster, the guard announced "Welcome to this additional Inter City East Coast service to Wakefield Westgate and Leeds" which I found hilarious. They even put a refreshment trolley on it!