class 158 Future at Scotrail?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by HellaEllie, 21 Aug 2018.

  1. HellaEllie

    HellaEllie Member

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    heya, i love the 158's on scotrails network!, but with new trains coming in for E-Dunblane and GLQ - Falkirk grahamston whats the future for these units?

    I find them much nicer than 170's as they feel more spacious, and the drivers on them dont tend to have a nasty tendency to turn on the heater during the summer!

    I might assume they would work the WHL and replace some 156's or be going to northern
     
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  3. 318266

    318266 Member

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    158's are planned to go on the West Highland, like you thought. They also run from Glasgow Central - Edinburgh via Shotts (planned to be replaced by Class 385 once the line is electrified), Inverness - Wick/Kyle of Lochalsh and others.
     
  4. NoMorePacers

    NoMorePacers Member

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    Some ScotRail 158s are being transferred to Northern. I should know this, as I rode on a 158 in ScotRail colours from Bridlington to Hull a few months ago.
     
  5. mullac30

    mullac30 Member

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    I'd imagine that they would eventually in the next decade be replaced by a universal Sprinter replacement for all the rural/scenic lines to simplify the fleet.
     
  6. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    I have read in other threads that the introduction of 158s on the WHL is a long way off yet due to expensive gauging issues
     
  7. Kneedown

    Kneedown Established Member

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    The Driver has no control of train heating on either a Sprinter or a 170.
    Overly warm 170's are usually due to the dodgy HVAC system fitted from new.
     
  8. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    Once the 385s are fully in service, aside from some 158s heading to Northern when they go off lease, as is currently the case, the future for them will be working the following services;
    Aberdeenshire locals
    Glasgow-Dundee/Arbroath
    Edinburgh-Fife Circle/Perth/Dundee
    Far North/Kyle Lines
    West Highland Line (whenever that happens)
    Borders Railway
     
  9. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    Seriously? I've always found the 158s to be horribly claustrophobic, especially the ones with the tombstone seats in them. There's far more room in a 170. I'm not even particularly tall.
     
  10. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    The 8 Angel Trains owned Scotrail units, 158782/786/789/867-871, are transferring to Northern. 2 units, 158870/871, have already made the move. This will leave the long-established "core" Scotrail fleet of 40 Porterbrook units, 158701 - 736/738 - 741, operating in Scotland on the routes outlined by Clansman above.
     
  11. mcmad

    mcmad Member

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    i guess the follow up question is, what are the 170's going to be doing?
     
  12. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    I'm not totally sold on the idea of "scenic" trains (given the costs associated with micro-fleets, the need to make railway lines function all year round rather than just being the playthings of tourists during school holidays - fine for preserved lines where people will pay for such things but a bit of a luxury on regular services).

    However, I think that there's merit in considering the total DMU fleet at ScotRail once the current franchise finishes in seven years time.

    Maybe the HSTs will be replaced by something like an 802 in the next franchise, but that still leaves maybe two hundred DMU carriages for routes that aren't electrified in 2025.

    A lot of them will be fairly functional, given the stop/start nature of commuter routes around Edinburgh/ Glasgow, so the bulk of the DMU fleet will presumably be tailored for routes like the Fife Circle and whatever "Southside" routes remain unelectrified.

    Maybe one fleet for such routes and another for the "scenic" lines (tailored for longer distance, less urgency to have "commuter" doors etc), but where do you draw the distinction? Is the Borders line "scenic" enough? Or does it function as an extension of the Fife Circle for operational purposes? Less scenery in Cowdenbeath, maybe, but I'd argue that the line from Dalmeney to Kinghorn is one of the finest half hours you can spend on a train (as long as you are looking over the Firth of Forth).
     
  13. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    why not luxury for all? Why is its such a no-no for some people? It is possible to create a layout that caters for all.

    Personally i would replace XC voyagers with HSTs, and then it maybe possible for Voyagers to run the "scenic lines".
     
  14. ANWP Tom

    ANWP Tom Member

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    December WTT has 44 158s still at Scotrail. Will need to double check for 170s tomorrow. Aim is to be down to the core fleet of 41. Diagrams also show that 170s are taking on the bulk of borders work atleast at start and end of service.

    158s
    17 sets IS8** allocated, based inverness.
    rest CK8** allocated, based corkerhill, serviced haymarket.

    Current WHL plan is focused 156s with cascaded 153s added (bike store)

    Have heard rumblings of the South of Clyde diesel diagrams mentioned at meetings for future 158 movement (Glasgow Central-Carlisle/Dumfries/Stranrear) but was just a passing comment. Sets off Falkirks/Dunblanes/Borders/Shotts beyond May 19 at the earliest is all I could see in that.
     
  15. GrimShady

    GrimShady Established Member

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    Good god I hope not!
     
  16. Altnabreac

    Altnabreac Established Member

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    The 170s will be doing a subset of the routes posted above for 158s. There is also the question of what stock will be used for Maryhill services once Alloa and Dunblane are electrified? Diagrams may be combined with the Glasgow - Arbroath services so they may transfer to 158/170 as well.

    I suspect the breakdown will be something like:

    Mainly 170s:
    Borders Rail
    Edinburgh - Dundee semi fast
    Edinburgh - Perth semi fast
    Glasgow - Dundee / Arbroath semi fast
    Inverurie - Montrose Aberdeenshire locals

    158 Only:
    Far North/Kyle Lines
    West Highland Line
    Elgin - Aviemore locals

    Mixture 158s / 170s:
    Fife Circle
    Maryhill line
    Edinburgh - Markinch

    We could well also see 158s or 170s starting to be used on some of the remaining 156 only routes to Stranraer, Kilmarnock, Dumfries etc. That might well need gauging work to be carried out but one of the things Transport Scotland has requested from Network Rail in CP6 is much wider flexibility for stock to work different routes.
     
  17. Craig2601

    Craig2601 Member

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    Do any 158s still currently have a first class section?
     
  18. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

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    Nope.
     
  19. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    The Inverness-based 158s that have been refurbished are fabulous.
     
  20. js1000

    js1000 Member

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    I'd say the 158s would be a good addition to Northern for their long-distance routes to and from Manchester Airport but the new 195s are going to do that. The grotty 156s are not suited to these long distance journeys and are a poor first impression for anyone foreign visitor who needs to get the train from the Airport into Manchester or further afield.
     
  21. 380101

    380101 Member

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    As drivers, we wouldn't thank you for 158s on any of the GSW routes. Horrible units to drive with the worst brakes of the whole ScotRail fleet. Certainly dont fancy my chances on the Girvan bank with a 158 during the Autumn or winter - a route that does not see the rail head treatment train!
     
  22. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    That's very interesting. I always thought that 158s were superior to 156s, given the improvements that they brought to the Far North and Kyle Lines when the 156s were replaced.
     
  23. route101

    route101 Established Member

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    Can see the 156s staying on the GSW and EK services . 158s and 170s have to be cleared dont they? With Shotts being electrified interworking will go .
     
  24. Class83

    Class83 Member

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    It would make more sense to use the 158s on the semi-fast services and the 170s on the stopping services as the mid carriage doors are an advantage for fast loading/unloading whereas vestibule door 158s will increase dwell times. There is little/no >90mph north of Edinburgh, I think the line by Edinburgh Airport may be.
     
  25. Sickandtired

    Sickandtired Member

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    As an edin park to stirling traveller, Have to agree with you here. 156 and 170 are palatial compared to 158 esp with those well dodgy seats. I pity whl users if that is where they are going.
     
  26. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

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    Agreed
     
  27. Highland37

    Highland37 Established Member

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    Can't say I agree. They would be average if it wasn't for the horrendous, constant, loud humming from a fan at one end of the coach.
     
  28. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

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    Any news on 158s going to the West Highland Line? With class 156s having had new 385 style (ironing board with armrests type) seats fitted are 158s still eventually planned for the route?
     
  29. whhistle

    whhistle On Moderation

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    Which should be the 195/196.
    We're ending up with a lot of smaller fleets rather than an any where - any operator - any service sort of train that's seen nearly every route going.
    But then the trend of getting replacement fleets in means we'll start to see newer trains scrapped earlier I suppose.
     
  30. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Almost everyone will be thinking bi-mode from now onwards.
     
  31. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Why would you buy any more junk from CAF? There’s a reason why CAF is known widely in the European rail industry as “Cheap As ****”.
     

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