Class 170 First Class

[dk1]

I actually found them less comfortable, which goes to show how people's views may differ on this subject! They looked very inviting, but were actually quite hard and I found myself sliding down and slumping into the seat. First Class on the Transpennine 158s was much better.

Don't want to sound condescending but are you thinking of the 2-car units 170270-3 which regularly got stuck? You would never slip in the armchair style ones on the 3-cars. Anglia appeared to tighten budgets by 2002.
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The seats were reused in 159101-8...

Thank you. I've wondered that for 11 years. They really where (and still are) class seats. First in fact

 

[edwin_m]

Don't want to sound condescending but are you thinking of the 2-car units 170270-3 which regularly got stuck? You would never slip in the armchair style ones on the 3-cars.

No, it was the 3-cars 170101-110. It may not have been slipping down, maybe something to do with the distance from the seat to the table, but I definitely recall them being less comfortable (for me personally) than they looked!

 

[dk1]

No, it was the 3-cars 170101-110. It may not have been slipping down, maybe something to do with the distance from the seat to the table, but I definitely recall them being less comfortable (for me personally) than they looked!

Oh that's ok then. Not Anglia units. Not sure who which TOC 101-110 to be honest.

 

[edwin_m]

Oh that's ok then. Not Anglia units. Not sure who which TOC 101-110 to be honest.

It was in MML days when they had the same seats as Anglia. They are all with XC now but with a different interior.

 

[dk1]

It was in MML days when they had the same seats as Anglia. They are all with XC now but with a different interior.

MML never had the same seats as Anglia 3-cars 201-208 which where the poshest of the 1st class bunch. MML 1st class was an embaresment & absolutely dire even showing up as shocking 2+2.

 

[MCR247]

MML never had the same seats as Anglia 3-cars 201-208 which where the poshest of the 1st class bunch. MML 1st class was an embaresment & absolutely dire even showing up as shocking 2+2.

That was when it all /1s were 2 car and had 1st in the ends of driving cars. When the centre cars were delivered for 101-110, these were the same as the Anglia centre cars

 

[ExRes]

MML never had the same seats as Anglia 3-cars 201-208 which where the poshest of the 1st class bunch. MML 1st class was an embaresment & absolutely dire even showing up as shocking 2+2.

MML had two different types of 1st class, as has been stated already

170111-117 had the dreadful 'behind the cab' version while 170101-110 had the same layout as the Anglia sets with 1st in the centre coach

I know for a fact 101-110 did not have all 2+2 seating, having walked through and travelled pass on the sets for about 4 years I would have noticed 2+2

 

[edwin_m]

MML had two different types of 1st class, as has been stated already

170111-117 had the dreadful 'behind the cab' version while 170101-110 had the same layout as the Anglia sets with 1st in the centre coach

I know for a fact 101-110 did not have all 2+2 seating, having walked through and travelled pass on the sets for about 4 years I would have noticed 2+2

All 17 of this fleet were originally delivered as 2-car with 2+2 FC. 101-110 later had centre cars added with the Anglia-style FC and the FC end compartments were declassified. These compartments remained as FC on 111-117 until the whole lot was declassified on transfer to Central.

 

[me123]

The Hull batch certainly did, and still does. Albeit not in use with ScotRail and despite the refurbishment, still remains in place. Did they ever see use in Scotland?

A bit late on this - I've never seen them used. Except once - the catering lady's trolley broke down and she couldn't come down the aisle. She "broke into" the buffet and started running operations from there - I got the impression from chatting to her that she wasn't supposed to have done this, but I thought it was a very sensible solution. I was almost tempted to write to Scotrail in praise of this, but thought better of it as she'd probably have been disciplined if the powers that be found out. (I actually did write to Scotrail - the staff on that journey were absolutely superb - but omitted this detail).

Since Scotrail only have four of these trains, it wouldn't really make sense to use the buffet regularly in terms of offering a consistent product.

I've never been tempted by FC on a 170. My experience is obviously largely with Scotrail, and I don't think that the increase in fare is worthwhile compared to what is offered in FC. The cabin may be slightly more comfortable, but I think SC is perfectly acceptable on a 170.

 

[Clansman]

There is an old legend going around Scotrail guards that the buffet was closed because someone burnt a bacon roll?

 

[kevjs]

That was when it all /1s were 2 car and had 1st in the ends of driving cars. When the centre cars were delivered for 101-110, these were the same as the Anglia centre cars

While your on the subject of 2-car MML trains - why on earth were two car trains ever considered sufficient on services to/from London? Were they simply temporary rolling stock pending the delivery of the Meridians or was the MML so under utilised they were considered sufficient?

If it's the latter then there was obviously plenty of pressurised demand - nothing(?), to 2 car 170, to 3 car 170, to 4/5/9 car Meridian's within half a decade strikes me as bad planning/forecasting (unless of course as part of a planned cascade as rolling stock became available).

 

[cf111]

I've never been tempted by FC on a 170. My experience is obviously largely with Scotrail, and I don't think that the increase in fare is worthwhile compared to what is offered in FC. The cabin may be slightly more comfortable, but I think SC is perfectly acceptable on a 170.

I've done it twice, once when a former employer was paying and once when I had a pile of RTVs which were about to expire. It's not worth it if you're paying full whack especially now some of the 170s have power outlets in the standard class saloons.

 

[ExRes]

While your on the subject of 2-car MML trains - why on earth were two car trains ever considered sufficient on services to/from London? Were they simply temporary rolling stock pending the delivery of the Meridians or was the MML so under utilised they were considered sufficient?

If it's the latter then there was obviously plenty of pressurised demand - nothing(?), to 2 car 170, to 3 car 170, to 4/5/9 car Meridian's within half a decade strikes me as bad planning/forecasting (unless of course as part of a planned cascade as rolling stock became available).

The 170s were delivered one or two years before I joined MML so I'm not entirely sure what the level of service was before they started, as far as I'm aware they were ordered to offer a stopping service so that the HSTs could give more of the "Inter City" service they were intended for and, just perhaps, to tempt more people to use the railway

I really can't recall when the 222s were first spoken about, but I'd be surprised if they had been in mind when the 170s were ordered

I would be inclined to go along the lines of the MML being classified as a backwater and the 170s ordered as a panic response to unexpected passenger usage

 

[fgwrich]

Does anyone have a picture of the former Anglia Railways / Hull Trains & Midland Mainline First Class areas?

What I'm wondering, was the new FC seats the big huge Primarius first class seating in these? Is there any truth in the reporting that the refurbishment of the SWT 158/159 Fleet took these spare seats from Anglian 170s?

 

[Clansman]

Does anyone have a picture of the former Anglia Railways / Hull Trains & Midland Mainline First Class areas?

What I'm wondering, was the new FC seats the big huge Primarius first class seating in these? Is there any truth in the reporting that the refurbishment of the SWT 158/159 Fleet took these spare seats from Anglian 170s?

I don't have any clear photos of the middle section on any of these 170s (and I dont think youll find any online anywhere) but I do know that the seats used were different to the ones used on SWT. The SWT ones are a slightly different design with longer armrests and a less dense seat itself. The type of seat found on the Anglia and Hull units were the same type as these - I think they were the ones recycled from the 170s.

You can tell the difference through the armrests, recliner buttons mostly.

 

[xc170]

From memory, I think the MML 170's had the type of seats seen in the second photo, I think I have a photo somewhere, I'll have to dig it out...

I'd forgot all about MML having 170's, I first started going out on trips just as Arriva got the XC franchise and living in Tamworth I usually started with a 170 and always dived in the declassified section on the 170's!

Ahh the memories, just found a photo of flickr of the MML standard interior.

Inside of MML TurboStar by translboro, on Flickr

 

[fgwrich]

From memory, I think the MML 170's had the type of seats seen in the second photo, I think I have a photo somewhere, I'll have to dig it out...

I'd forgot all about MML having 170's, I first started going out on trips just as Arriva got the XC franchise and living in Tamworth I usually started with a 170 and always dived in the declassified section on the 170's!

Ahh the memories, just found a photo of flickr of the MML standard interior.

Inside of MML TurboStar by translboro, on Flickr

I don't know whether I like that or not! That moquette does remind me of Christmas Trees though!

I don't have any clear photos of the middle section on any of these 170s (and I dont think youll find any online anywhere) but I do know that the seats used were different to the ones used on SWT. The SWT ones are a slightly different design with longer armrests and a less dense seat itself. The type of seat found on the Anglia and Hull units were the same type as these - I think they were the ones recycled from the 170s.

You can tell the difference through the armrests, recliner buttons mostly.

That's the ones I was thinking of. The ex Anglia versions I think ended up in the 159/1s - the original and later refurbished batch of 159s gained the later Primarius design with the smaller headrests. Not sure about the 158s though.

 

[mark-h]

The Hull batch certainly did, and still does. Albeit not in use with ScotRail and despite the refurbishment, still remains in place. Did they ever see use in Scotland?

On one trip from Aviemore to Edinburgh I remember there being a buffet counter branded "Cafe Bar 170" (or similar).

I think it served fresh filter coffee.