That’s what I was thinking too…
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Class 221 for Grand Central
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No this is black, that area on the Avanti livery is dark blue
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Who's mentioned paint??
The conversation about whether it's unbranded Avanti base layer. The as far as I know, branding was printed on the same vinyl as the base layer so to un-brand it the whole front Avanti livery would have needed removing with it. It would seem somebody (the depot? Grand Central? Avanti?) revinyled it in black for them ahead of handing it over.
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Danfilm007
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Don't the XC ones still have the original painted red roofs from Virgin?
Except it seems nothing like that was done before handing it over, there are multiple images and videos of it being sent there still with nothing further done to it. The picture with the claim of it being black is at night, just looks like the normal vinyl to me.
Exactly, there’s no way this would be GC livery as it is, considering the shape in the image is identical to that of the AWC voyager livery - GC vinyl wouldn’t be deliberately curved like at the ends. People need to remember the actual vinyl on the Avanti Voyagers is a very dark blue as it is - much darker than the 390 ends.
Yes, it's just covered in dirt.
Russel
Established Member
The depot photo was taken in thr dark....
scottie
Member
Saw 221143 at Mexborough on its way to Crofton and it looked black to me.
An image of it en route. Doesn't to me.
That’s exactly it - all that was done was the removal of the orange and turquoise vinyl surrounds and branding the units had in their Avanti livery. 142 and 143 have been sat in storage the past year in that exact condition - I passed them at both CR and Worksop looking like that. It’s just the dark making it look black when it’s just the base Avanti dark turquoise.
Not just that, the whole livery is still in effect, Virgin, just with the ends vinyled maroon, doors pink and the small Virgin << ... >> << ... >> removed. You can see the difference in this photo of 144 taken a few years ago upon transfer from VWC to AXC.
Stenson Jn IMGP9367-1
NEW Cross country Voyager 221144 made up of ex Virgin carriages has made an extra 4 car unit ventures out on a test run
www.flickr.com
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yorkshireguy21
Member
Will the GC 221s be fitted with ETCS? Or, do they already have ETCS - I assume not? My guess is that they will need to be due to the roll out of ETCS on the ECML - especially if its live in 2025.
occone
Member
XC summed up
I have an advance ticket with GC booked for a couple of weeks time, specifically because I like the 180s. I'll be fuming if I find a voyager, might just turn on my heel and get something else if that happens.
I’d be more worried about it being cancelled than the Voyagers being introduced - besides, they still need to do crew training, route clearances etc which can take a couple of months at least.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
If a 221 is ready for passenger service that fast, I'll be very impressed! As has been said, it's more likely it'll be cancelled than anything else!
Grand Central won't care. They'll still have your money. You won't get a refund because it's not the type of train you like!
Regardless, the chances one will be in service in a couple of weeks is slim.
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
Will GC do an interior refurbishment for the two 221s or not?
m79900
Member
I wouldn't have thought so, not for a while anyway. The Avanti interior's similar to GC colours anyway.
dk1
Veteran Member
No refurbishment on the horizon.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
The faded and threadbare FirstGroup interior on the 180s stuck around with GC for what felt like a decade, so I wouldn't be expecting any major changes this side of the next glacial maximum!
trainswitheddy
Member
Was the 5Z69 0815 Crofton Depot to Newark Northgate meant to be a training/test run for it today?
Not anytime soon, and no, respectively. The 2025 date for the East Coast Digital Programme refers to the year that ETCS operation is meant to start, but the termination of conventional signalling won't be for several years after that.
D365
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that’s a good point. Especially as Angel Trains spent a lot of time/effort in commissioning a Class 180 FiC.
Probably worth noting that a 365 was also sent away for fitting with ETCS, so Angel Trains doing that is no guarantee of the 180s surviving.. was a different ROSCO, admittedly, but I wouldn’t bank on that as a reason for the fleet staying.
D365
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Indeed - what I mean is that, if Beacon is intending to lease more Class 22x units to Grand Central, they will need to factor in the timescales for design, installation and commissioning of a FiC fitment. Unless, of course, they’ve been working on it in the background as part of their releasing exercise.
Nym
Established Member
The 221 is of course already fitted with a subset of ETCS if it’s a West Coast one.
I would just put money on the EVC used not being compatible with the new baselines set by Network Rail
I would just put money on the EVC used not being compatible with the new baselines set by Network Rail
GWVillager
Member
I believe the 221s were designed ‘ETCS ready’ or something like that - an installation should be relatively straightforward compared to a 180.
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