Class 221 for Grand Central

[Wolfie]

Because people like the numbers to match up?

Enthusiasts and some folk on the spectrum. The average passenger doesn't care in the slightest as you well, from your emoji, know, lol.

 

[swt_passenger]

If the 2 Class 221 Super Voyager units are withdrawn from Grand Central and stored away, they could have the center carriage removed, so the 2 Class 221 units 221136 and 221140 could have their own carriages back, and in turn the unit 221144 would have it's own carriages back.

You’ve asked this question four times recently, across three diffent threads, and the answer is still “why would you need to”? Maintenance cycles will take priority.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Given that various items are on a unit maintenance cycle why, other than "neatness", would they waste money doing that?

Because those two are currently "short" formed as four cars and have been for several years, and this would strengthen them back to five in service, storing 8 rather than 10 cars. Probably many reasons why this is inconvenient, but its a reasonable suggestion.

 

[357]

Because those two are currently "short" formed as four cars and have been for several years, and this would strengthen them back to five in service, storing 8 rather than 10 cars. Probably many reasons why this is inconvenient, but its a reasonable suggestion.

It would probably be easier, if there was a desire to replace two 4s with two 5s, to introduce ex Avanti 5s and store XC 4s.

 

[John R]

This is my issue - a long depreciated asset

I doubt they are long depreciated. At construction the financial assumption would have been for a lifespan well in excess of the 22 years they have currently done - I’m guessing at least 30 years.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I doubt they are long depreciated. At construction the financial assumption would have been for a lifespan well in excess of the 22 years they have currently done - I’m guessing at least 30 years.

Sorry that was sloppily worded, I didn't mean fully depreciated but just that they're now well depreciated and are quite some way past half their design lives. I wonder how many times over they've been paid for by now.

 

[Wolfie]

It would probably be easier, if there was a desire to replace two 4s with two 5s, to introduce ex Avanti 5s and store XC 4s.

Yup

 

[James Kevill]

You’ve asked this question four times recently, across three diffent threads, and the answer is still “why would you need to”? Maintenance cycles will take priority.

Ok sorry about that. I forgot about it.

 

[harz99]

Both 221s were in use on Bradford services today...

 

[357]

Both 221s were in use on Bradford services today...

This is normal Monday - Friday.

 

[trainswitheddy]

Is 221143 going around with an XC door? Noticed it had a pinky/purple door the other day when I saw it.

 

[Russel]

When is the 12 month lease on these up, or has that been and gone with the lease being extended?

Let's be realistic, the 180's reliability is never going to improve enough to be able to loose them now before any new stock arrives...

 

[trainswitheddy]

When is the 12 month lease on these up, or has that been and gone with the lease being extended?

Let's be realistic, the 180's reliability is never going to improve enough to be able to loose them now before any new stock arrives...

Afaik it was til July and has been extended by another 12 months.
I think 180 repairs are either done or nearing completion now, so would be surprised if they're extended further.

 

[Driver068]

221s have been extended 12 months until summer 2025

 

[BlueLeanie]

Have the 221s been the reliable workhorse putting the 180s to shame?

 

[dk1]

Have the 221s been the reliable workhorse putting the 180s to shame?

I think that goes without saying.

 

[Russel]

Afaik it was til July and has been extended by another 12 months.
I think 180 repairs are either done or nearing completion now, so would be surprised if they're extended further.

Repairs to 180's are only ever temporary though...

Given how dire they are, Grand Central would be daft to loose the Voyagers before any new stock arrives.

 

[skyhigh]

Given how dire they are, Grand Central would be daft to loose the Voyagers before any new stock arrives.

It'll depend on whether somebody else makes the ROSCO a better offer for them at the end of this extension...

 

[D365]

It'll depend on whether somebody else makes the ROSCO a better offer for them at the end of this extension...

Could somebody please remind me how many of the Avanti 221s are not being released to CrossCountry?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Could somebody please remind me how many of the Avanti 221s are not being released to CrossCountry?

AIUI AWC had twenty 5 car 221s. Upon withdrawal from AWC it was seven, then twelve 221s to XC leaving a balance of eight for Alstom to use / lease.
I am not sure anyone has announced whether 221142/143 will move to XC as part of the twelve, or whether they will move to Alstom

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Repairs to 180's are only ever temporary though...

Given how dire they are, Grand Central would be daft to loose the Voyagers before any new stock arrives.

I thought they will have to as they aren't fitted with ETCS

 

[Wyrleybart]

I thought they will have to as they aren't fitted with ETCS

I am not sure a "first in class" voyager has gone for ETCS fitment, but I am not sure it is needed for the next few years anyway, except obviously the GCR services south of Stoke tunnel.

 

[ZakCreaser2003]

Personally I can see GC keeping the 221's until GC replace the Class 180 fleet.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Personally I can see GC keeping the 221's until GC replace the Class 180 fleet.

Easy to think that but ETCS Kings Cross - Stoke Tunnel means 180s can run it because they are equipped, and GCR ran a test train last week. 221s worked only by West Riding (Bradford) crews are not, and every class 1 GCR train runs over the route South of Stoke Tunnel.

Technically, Sunderland crews could learn the 221s and could work Sunderland - Doncaster for set swaps, as Tyne Yard already service the XC voyagers, but set swaps at Doncaster would be very messy. More economically, the Bradford-Kings Cross trains could set swap at Doncaster using the West Riding crews, but again it would be very messy and eat drivers hours.

Apart from that who knows what new rolling stock GCR would acquire and the lead times for getting it into service, particularly as it will have to use ETCS from day 1, as a new build.

 

[D365]

It all depends whether the 2029 ’switch-over’ date for ECDP (East Coast Digital Programme) comes to pass. Certainly the new build stock will have to come equipped, as above.

 

[Nym]

It all depends whether the 2029 ’switch-over’ date for ECDP (East Coast Digital Programme) comes to pass. Certainly the new build stock will have to come equipped, as above.

How many times has that date been pushed back now?

I seem to remember some David Waboso enthusiasm 10 years or so ago that it would be done much sooner.

 

[ExRes]

Noticed by chance on WNXX that Hanson & Hall are operating todays scheduled 1033 5M98 Crofton Depot to Barton Under Needwood RSMD which is a 221 for maintenance