Class 222s on CrossCountry

[superalbs]

I remember faintly when I was younger the MML Class 222 'Pioneer' units being used on Virgin CrossCountry services. I remember seeing a couple call at Exeter St Davids.

Can anyone confirm this for me, or even better, provide some photos of the units operating CrossCountry services?

 

[Minilad]

No 222 has ever worked an XC service as far as I am aware

 

[PHILIPE]

I remember faintly when I was younger the MML Class 222 'Pioneer' units being used on Virgin CrossCountry services. I remember seeing a couple call at Exeter St Davids.

Can anyone confirm this for me, or even better, provide some photos of the units operating CrossCountry services?

I think your'e mistaken. Perhaps somebody else will confirm.

 

[Dhassell]

Only MML Train working Into the South West I can think of are the HST's!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The hst's were reformed as 5 car units and called challengers. MYbe thats what you remember. VXC never used meridians.

 

[323235]

I'm not aware that 222s have ever worked for XC

Crew would have to undertake a crew training or conversion course from 220s/221s but as the 222s are very different from Voyagers then I don't think they would be able to do conversion. Therefore this would have cost a lot of money just for ad-hoc use and would not be in any way economical for the franchise.

 

[Ash Bridge]

As mentioned above, I think Midland Mainline hst sets have been hired in by Virgin XC in the past for use on summer Saturday holiday trains to Newquay originating from Manchester and elsewhere.

 

[ExRes]

With the extremely limited number of MML Meridians and HT Pioneers I can't imagine that there was ever a period when the two companies would have had a spare unit to hire out even if they had wanted to, I certainly don't recall hearing talk at work of a Meridian going anywhere plus, as has been mentioned by others, VXC staff would have required changeover training from 220/221s

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I remember faintly when I was younger the MML Class 222 'Pioneer' units being used on Virgin CrossCountry services. I remember seeing a couple call at Exeter St Davids.

Can anyone confirm this for me, or even better, provide some photos of the units operating CrossCountry services?

Nope, never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever happened

MML have never had Pioneer units - Hull Trains had them

 

[dk1]

The hst's were reformed as 5 car units and called challengers. MYbe thats what you remember. VXC never used meridians.

That never happened.

What a strange thread this is. Made me think I was on another planet.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The hst's were reformed as 5 car units and called challengers. MYbe thats what you remember. VXC never used meridians.

I wonder if someone got them mixed up with Supervoyagers.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

They did run a few sets as five coach Challenger sets as this site has pictures of them

 

[gimmea50anyday]

No, i can assure you as an ex VXC RSM that we ran 5 car (5+2pc) hst's! Then the SRA took them off VXC and gave them to MML project Rio, aong with the loss of Liverpool and Blackpool workings

Newquay summer saturday were operated with HST's hired in from GNER, FGW and MML!

VXC also ran summer saturdays to Ramsgate using a Deltic, but that was before I joined VXC in 2002
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They did run a few sets as five coach Challenger sets as this site has pictures of them

Thank you!

 

[Ash Bridge]

No, i can assure you as an ex VXC RSM that we ran 5 car (5+2pc) hst's! Then the SRA took them off VXC and gave them to MML project Rio, aong with the loss of Liverpool and Blackpool workings

Newquay summer saturday were operated with HST's hired in from GNER, FGW and MML!

VXC also ran summer saturdays to Ramsgate using a Deltic, but that was before I joined VXC in 2002
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Thank you!

I can vouch for those 2+5 HST's, recall seeing them at Stockport on Manchester - Birmingham (and beyond) XC workings around 2003/4?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

On a saturday, numerous compaints were being made of a late morning bournemouth-scotland service utilising a 4 car voyager that was f+s from southampton with people being left behind at Winchester and Basingstoke. So one saturday to investigate Chris Green was stood on Platform 3 at Reading waiting for it to come in.

Replatformed on to P4 (this was in 2003) a 5 car HST rolls in. Happy to see something done about it, Chris tottled off pleased as punch.

Following saturday train is a 4 car voyager!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I can vouch for those 2+5 HST's, recall seeing them at Stockport on Manchester - Birmingham (and beyond) XC workings around 2003/4?

I used to enjoy working 16:03 from Reading to Manchester (14:44 ex BMH to Glasgow Iirc) which was booked a 5 car HST. Although based at (and supposed to book on) at Reading I always picked it up at Basingstoke as I lodged in nearby Overton. I think a lot of crews favoured working HST's over voyagers, and with 5 on as opposed to the former 7 car (or 8 car west coast sets which the saturday 09:03 PAD-MAN utilised) they went like the proverbials!

 

[fgwrich]

Only MML Train working Into the South West I can think of are the HST's!

There were a few variations of this too. MML Sets on hire to Virgin Cross Country, Ex Midland Mainline sets transferred over to XC before refurbishment, and the one ex Midland Mainline set which transferred over to FGW - This had an FGW Buffet inserted fairly quickly and usually ran between MTU Power Cars.

 

[sprinterguy]

The hst's were reformed as 5 car units and called challengers. MYbe thats what you remember. VXC never used meridians.

To elaborate on what has been said, though you know well yourself, for the final year of their operation on North East - South West services, up until withdrawal in September 2003, the Virgin Crosscountry HSTs were shortened to 2+5 formation in order to match Voyager timings. The only people I ever heard refer to these trains as "Challengers" were enthusiasts referencing the proposals reported in RAIL magazine for Virgin to heavily refurbish a number of HST sets as class 255 "Challengers", which never went ahead.

Virgin Crosscountry hired Midland Mainline HST sets during 2006, which remained in 2+8 formation. Prior to their own sets being refurbished I also recall that Arriva XC operated full length MML liveried sets in late 2007/early 2008.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They did run a few sets as five coach Challenger sets as this site has pictures of them

I confirm they did. I've been on one.

The plan was to refurb them to have Voyager style interiors and use them on a Paddington to Brum hourly service (I think) but this never happened.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

They were known as class 255 challengers internally aswell. The name pioneers was also mentioned internally referring to HST's iirc these were 7 or 8 car formations, or they were the 5 cars not earmarked for refurbishment. These terms were only used once the operation princess timetable started, the HST's being reformed for this.

The challengers were planned to run out of Paddington to Birmingham as you say, interestingly tho the route was via Swindon and the stroud valley towards cheltenham and were to replace the 158's being used by XC at the time. That also never happened!

Shame the modern crosscountry is a shadow of its former self with many routes lost....

 

[brompton rail]

MML HST sets operated Leeds to Newquay trains (also to Penzance for a couple of years) on Summer Saturdays for many years under BR. There was an overnight service to Newquay to operate the morning service north as well as the 0605 Leeds to Newquay. These were 8 car sets with full kitchen. XC catering staff were used to preparing and serving straight forward meals (including breakfast) and when preparing meals in MML sets were not unknown to improvise with whatever they found in the fridges to add addition courses like a fruit and cream pudding. MML & XC were of course the same division within BR InterCity and MML HST sets were maintained at Neville Hill.