Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[FOH]

But each unit has 4 Ford Duratorq engines, presumably new, or refurbished, but if one fails, the other 3 should provide service. Unless the monitoring software stops the train?

I have zero local knowledge but there is a human instinct when faced with a new situation to call a stop if unsure and seek help. It might be that a year down the line when orange light C turns on the driver simply logs it and carries on successfully until the end of the day having built experience up to have the confidence they aren't about to be stranded.

 

[tomuk]

But each unit has 4 Ford Duratorq engines, presumably new, or refurbished, but if one fails, the other 3 should provide service. Unless the monitoring software stops the train?

And a set of battery packs which should allow the set to operate with no engines for a considerable distance.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

And a set of battery packs which should allow the set to operate with no engines for a considerable distance.

Has there ever been an introduced post-steam period multiple unit that has been such a problem as the Class 230?

 

[33017]

And a set of battery packs which should allow the set to operate with no engines for a considerable distance.

That doesn’t seem to be the case. Whenever they lose engines, they lose power (eg. 7 mph up Hawarden bank on 2/4).

 

[The exile]

Has there ever been an introduced post-steam period multiple unit that has been such a problem as the Class 230?

How about the exploding transformers on the Blue trains and the GE suburban stock?

 

[tomuk]

That doesn’t seem to be the case. Whenever they lose engines, they lose power (eg. 7 mph up Hawarden bank on 2/4).

It was the idea originally whether the current situation is down to how they are being operated, poor implementation by VivaRail or the result of the units being fixed by Ricardo.

 

[DelW]

Has there ever been an introduced post-steam period multiple unit that has been such a problem as the Class 230?

It depends how you define "such a problem", but inter alia, GWR's 769s spent a year or two being tested but are now stored out of use without ever having carried a passenger; SWR's numerous brand new 701s are now several years late and are stored all over the place, without ever having carried a passenger or looking likely to any time soon; and SWR's then newly refurbished, repainted and retractioned 442s went direct from storage to the scrappers. So the 230s at least have some competition for the title.

 

[tomuk]

It depends how you define "such a problem", but inter alia, GWR's 769s spent a year or two being tested but are now stored out of use without ever having carried a passenger; SWR's numerous brand new 701s are now several years late and are stored all over the place, without ever having carried a passenger or looking likely to any time soon; and SWR's then newly refurbished, repainted and retractioned 442s went direct from storage to the scrappers. So the 230s at least have some competition for the title.

Well two of those are pretty much due to the union not accepting the units.

 

[DelW]

Well two of those are pretty much due to the union not accepting the units.

The 701s allegedly still have numerous software faults even after years of updates, as well as the contentious cab design. The 769s' "problem" did seem to be partly train crew acceptability (though other TOCs' versions haven't been great for reliability either). Admittedly both their and the 442s' cases were exacerbated by reduced passenger numbers / DfT cost saving demands, as much as actual faults with the trains themselves.

Hence my comment about what types of "problem" are considered to be included.

 

[tomuk]

The 701s allegedly still have numerous software faults even after years of updates, as well as the contentious cab design. The 769s' "problem" did seem to be partly train crew acceptability (though other TOCs' versions haven't been great for reliability either). Admittedly both their and the 442s' cases were exacerbated by reduced passenger numbers / DfT cost saving demands, as much as actual faults with the trains themselves.

Hence my comment about what types of "problem" are considered to be included.

The GWR 769s didn't have cab cooling so wouldn't be driven. The 701s are as good as the other Aventras after mods but somebody doesn't want to do DCO so the remain unacceptable.

 

[Dai Corner]

The GWR 769s didn't have cab cooling so wouldn't be driven. The 701s are as good as the other Aventras after mods but somebody doesn't want to do DCO so the remain unacceptable.

Do the Welsh 769s have cab cooling or are the local branch of ASLEF less fussy?

 

[tomuk]

Do the Welsh 769s have cab cooling or are the local branch of ASLEF less fussy?

Initially they had an inferior make of cab cooling, they went into service and were later modified with the system fitted across GWRs 15x\16x.

 

[craigybagel]

Do the Welsh 769s have cab cooling or are the local branch of ASLEF less fussy?

The Welsh drivers were transitioning from other trains similarly lacking in creature comforts (37s, Pacers and 150s). For GWR drivers it was a big step down from the Turbos they were replacing. Also it was well known that the TfW units were only temporary, before more modern units appeared (and from what I've heard, the Stadler cabs are a very nice place to be indeed). The GWR units were meant to be a long term solution. Why should ASLEF accept an inferior workplace on a permanent basis?

 

[tomuk]

It isn't just the Turbos the 150s have the same cab cooler retrofitted someone at GWR likes their cab cooled. The 150s which were transferred to Northern had it removed, must like warm cabs in Manchester.

 

[Peter Sarf]

TfW took the decision to order these units in the knowledge that difficulties with the Class 230 units had already been seen in the aborted one-year contract on the Coventry-Nuneaton line, so they now are reaping what they have sown.

The TfW 230s are different from the one used on the Coventry-Nuneaton line as they are diesel + battery so the load on the diesel engine is different. Maybe not different enough though !.

 

[sw1ller]

So, just left work and noticed on the shunt sheets for the morning, 197006 & 197001 are on 5j80.

5j80 is the train that makes up both units on the Wrexham bidston.

Now, I’m not saying it’s definitely happening but it’s looking very likely. Don’t know if a 230 will be working too??

 

[paddyb6]

So, just left work and noticed on the shunt sheets for the morning, 197006 & 197001 are on 5j80.

5j80 is the train that makes up both units on the Wrexham bidston.

Now, I’m not saying it’s definitely happening but it’s looking very likely. Don’t know if a 230 will be working too??

Is it not 5F46 and 5F50? 5J80 forms the Wrexham to Liverpool?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am not sure if this has been asked previously, but in recent times, what other fleet did not work at weekends in the UK?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I am not sure if this has been asked previously, but in recent times, what other fleet did not work at weekends in the UK?

The Class 800 was introduced doing a few Bristol and Cardiff services on weekdays only for its first month or so. 717 did a daily “preview run” once a day on weekdays only for a short while before full introduction. 345 was the same. I think also, GWR’s 387s only worked weekdays initially when their work was limited to Hayes shuttles.

 

[sw1ller]

Is it not 5F46 and 5F50? 5J80 forms the Wrexham to Liverpool?

Not from platform 2 no.

I am not sure if this has been asked previously, but in recent times, what other fleet did not work at weekends in the UK?

67’s don’t tend to do much on a Saturday/Sunday.

 

[childwallblues]

Is it not 5F46 and 5F50? 5J80 forms the Wrexham to Liverpool?

197011+197006 are on 1F91 0627 Wrexham General to Liverpool Lime Street.

 

[Foxcover]

That was momentary excitement for the Bidston line!

 

[sw1ller]

Sorry. My bad.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That was momentary excitement for the Bidston line!

Yes, unfortunately like the Heart of Wales line, they will have to predominantly make do with the dated 70s and 80s trains for now, while the rest of the network gets brand new.

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes, unfortunately like the Heart of Wales line, they will have to predominantly make do with the dated 70s and 80s trains for now, while the rest of the network gets brand new.

I think the unreliability is a far bigger problem than the age. The D stock was one of the most reliable fleets on the underground.

 

[Dai Corner]

What 70s trains work the Heart of Wales Line?

Maybe TfW are going to buy a few HSTs ?

 

[mrd269697]

couple of questions:

Why do the 230’s never operate on a weekend

Since they keep failing why can’t they just take them all out of service, identify the issues and put 2 150’s on the line until it’s resolved?

 

[Dai Corner]

couple of questions:

Why do the 230’s never operate on a weekend

Since they keep failing why can’t they just take them all out of service, identify the issues and put 2 150’s on the line until it’s resolved?

There aren't any 150s spare during the week but there are at the weekend.

 

[Sam 76]

I am not sure if this has been asked previously, but in recent times, what other fleet did not work at weekends in the UK?

777s have only really just started proper weekend service recently

 

[Krokodil]

Maybe TfW are going to buy a few HSTs ?

There was a rumour a while ago that the RCS HST would get used on that line instead of the S&C.