alexf380
Established Member
I know we're a bit far off yet but by 2014/15 the class 314s will be off the rails and I think now is the time to start speculating what could be it's replacement.
I know we're a bit far off yet but by 2014/15 the class 314s will be off the rails and I think now is the time to start speculating what could be it's replacement.
If that does happen I hope there's not the fiasco like at the start of this year!As much as I would like Derby to be kept in the game, surely it would make sense to order some more Class 380s to make a start on a uniform electric fleet for Scotrail.
If that does happen I hope there's not the fiasco like at the start of this year!
It wouldn't be worth the cost of reforming or otherwise altering the 317s when they are only two or three years younger than the 314s, and when the 314s have only got a few more years of life in them.As Abellio will be sending 9 class 317s off lease, they could replace some class 314s in Glasgow as they are similar to class 318s. They would probably have a carriage removed though.
I fully expect to see either a further batch of 3-car 380s built to replace the 314s
Trains that go about their work quietly and perform the job they were designed to do adequately seem to get left alone when it comes to talks of fleet replacement. Hence so many threads that have vilified Pacers and Voyagers!I agree, though I'm surprised that we've not discussed 314 replacement on here before (considering there have been more "Pacer Replacement" threads than there have been Pacers to replace!).
Trains that go about their work quietly and perform the job they were designed to do adequately seem to get left alone when it comes to talks of fleet replacement. Hence so many threads that have vilified Pacers and Voyagers!
Ideal units really, like the EMU version of the 156, the type that are so good at doing unspectacular things week in/week out that they end up "under the radar".
My only criticism is of the small fleets of Scottish EMUs:
- 314s = 16x 3 car
- 318 = 21x 3 car
- 320 = 22x 3 car
...for all that I complain about the "tiny" classes of modern units like 175s, these really are small fleets (yeah, I appreciate that they are essentially differently numbered versions of equivalent "English" EMUs, in the way that a 322 is just a 321, but you know what I mean...).
Since it doesn't seem economical to do a newbuild of just sixteen replacement EMUs, I'd expect any new EMUs to be part of a bigger order (such a the EGIP one).
As to EGIP, how many DMUs would be freed up by electrification of the Central Belt
There's no complicated electronics in them to go wrong
On these there aren't even any toilets to worry about making them DDA compliant!
To me it seems to be madness to be replacing superior 1970s stock when there is far worse 1980s stock running around (of the four wheel variety).
Ideal units really, like the EMU version of the 156, the type that are so good at doing unspectacular things week in/week out that they end up "under the radar".
My only criticism is of the small fleets of Scottish EMUs:
- 314s = 16x 3 car
- 318 = 21x 3 car
- 320 = 22x 3 car
...for all that I complain about the "tiny" classes of modern units like 175s, these really are small fleets (yeah, I appreciate that they are essentially differently numbered versions of equivalent "English" EMUs, in the way that a 322 is just a 321, but you know what I mean...).
Since it doesn't seem economical to do a newbuild of just sixteen replacement EMUs, I'd expect any new EMUs to be part of a bigger order (such a the EGIP one).
I've often wondered why the 318s weren't 317/8s and so on. I know they used different traction motors, but that seemed to be about it.
As for the current PEP-based fleet, we really need a bunch of extra 378s, certainly to replace the 313s (provided they can fit down the tunnels) and probably the 315s as well. Not so sure about the 50Xs, but likely. Perhaps all the other GN-line stock could be replaced with 379s, providing a cascade of 365s to somwhere else, plus a few more useable 321s, thus phasing out all the remaining 317s on NXEA. Not sure where the 317s would go, but they are getting on a bit as well.
I've not done the post-Crossrail maths, but if you could build one big fleet of EMUs to replace 313/ 314/ 315/ 507/ 508s and to run on the electrified Cardiff Valleys (similar short distance work suited to EMUs with big doors etc) then you'd have a very interesting template
Not sure where the 317s would go, but they are getting on a bit as well.
By the time the 314s come up for replacement (2015 to 2019 perhaps?), this will coincide with the EGIP plan as mentioned and possible Glasgow southside fill-in schemes (Whifflet is planned I believe, with Paisley Canal and East Kilbride expected and Kilmarnock a possibility I would imagine). I would doubt any direct 314 replacements would be considered, but adding on an equivalent or greater number of EGIP units (everyone seems to think more 380s!) would seem logical, thus allowing a cascade of 334s, 320, 318s with the 314s dropping out of service. Either the 318s or 320s would surely be enough to cover existing 314 turns plus Whifflet, Paisley Canal, East Kilbride along with a additional few 380s to maintain just the 2 classes out of Glasgow Central High Level. The 334s and 318 or 320s could then be concentrated on Argyll line services with the additional EGIP units used on Edinburgh-Helensburgh services, along with the 334s as now.
I think the EGIP scheme should free up around 38 DMUs (Edinburgh-Glasgow, Glasgow-Dunblane/Alloa/Falkirk Grahamston & Edinburgh-Dunblane should all go electric), so allowing for capacity building, a similar number of 3 and 4-car EMUs could be expected - added to a 314 replacement and additional southside units, then an order of close to 60 EMUs could be a very tempting project - assuming we still have some money left for this by then! The benefit for England would surely be an exodus of 156s, 158s and even 170s south to allow Pacers to be replaced.
Either the 318s or 320s would surely be enough to cover existing 314 turns plus Whifflet, Paisley Canal, East Kilbride along with a additional few 380s to maintain just the 2 classes out of Glasgow Central High Level.