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Class 317 withdrawals.

OTRail

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I always thought it was a bit odd that only the 24x 317/2s were refurbished, plus the small handful of Stansted units. That didn’t even make up half of the 317 fleet, and the remaining units were barely touched at the time. They even kept NSE seat coverings for quite a few more years.

I guess it all came down to how much WAGN was prepared (and committed) to pay. I don’t think there were dedicated diagrams for the 317/6 units, so it was pot luck whether you got one.
Let’s not forget as well that the 365s (which were the basis of WAGN’s express fleet out of Cambridge) were among the last units post privatisation to retain the full NSE livery. Just goes to show how much WAGN cared for presentation of their trains...
 
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bramling

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Let’s not forget as well that the 365s (which were the basis of WAGN’s express fleet out of Cambridge) were among the last units post privatisation to retain the full NSE livery. Just goes to show how much WAGN cared for presentation of their trains...

The original WAGN franchise was pretty lethargic. The 313 refurbishment was a glorified refresh, and they never got a livery besides undercoat under the original franchise. Their stations got the bare minimum, and operationally they weren’t too clever either, cancellations common due to driver shortages, and an aversion to running any more than the bare minimum train lengths. Things only improved under National Express, however the 317/1s still only managed a fairly light refresh.
 

43096

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Let’s not forget as well that the 365s (which were the basis of WAGN’s express fleet out of Cambridge) were among the last units post privatisation to retain the full NSE livery. Just goes to show how much WAGN cared for presentation of their trains...
So because a fleet doesn't need (and isn't due) a repaint, it's symptomatic of the TOC's "care".
 

Bikeman78

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I always thought it was a bit odd that only the 24x 317/2s were refurbished, plus the small handful of Stansted units. That didn’t even make up half of the 317 fleet, and the remaining units were barely touched at the time. They even kept NSE seat coverings for quite a few more years.

I guess it all came down to how much WAGN was prepared (and committed) to pay. I don’t think there were dedicated diagrams for the 317/6 units, so it was pot luck whether you got one.
I don't know about WAGN but I think AGA had separate diagrams for the 1st and 2nd series units a few years ago. Of course in the real world, any unit turned up anywhere. The only units that tended to stick to the correct route were the Stansted units; 21 sets to cover 18 diagrams.
 

VEP3417

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ive got an old video i took somewhere on my computer in what i think is a 317 at Harringay which appears to be in nse livery but the red stripe has been painted green, what livery would that have been ? also have a video of one in wagn livery one coupled to one in nse :lol:
 

365 Networker

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317 at Harringay which appears to be in nse livery but the red stripe has been painted green
That's the LTS livery - they where loaned to LTS before the 357s arrived, but when they returned to WAGN it took a while for them to be repainted.
 

Royston Vasey

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Let’s not forget as well that the 365s (which were the basis of WAGN’s express fleet out of Cambridge) were among the last units post privatisation to retain the full NSE livery. Just goes to show how much WAGN cared for presentation of their trains...
The units weren't that old when they inherited them. The paint was under warranty long into the franchise and I always remember them being smart enough, especially with their new front ends: the original carpets and seats started to look a bit grubby I'll grant you!

Wagn didn't have much of a strong corporate identity on the Great Northern side, the lazy plain purple ended up on the 317s eventually. They had a nice if unimaginative livery on the Anglian side which most of those units got.

Prism Rail kept making new logos for WAGN but liveries weren't much of a focus on commuter routes in the early days like they are now. I always had a feeling they were all bus guys playing at being NSE. The original SWT was just a Stagecoached NSE, and the LTS livery only replaced red with green.

First Capital Connect eventually then reliveried - or rather vinyled the 365s into the radical neon livery and refurbished them to a high standard. FCC got a bad name for the Thameslink side but on the GN they were generally quite good.
 
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D365

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Let’s not forget as well that the 365s (which were the basis of WAGN’s express fleet out of Cambridge) were among the last units post privatisation to retain the full NSE livery. Just goes to show how much WAGN cared for presentation of their trains...
The NSE paint job had a ten year warranty attached to it, hence why it disappeared once FCC had the franchise...
 

O L Leigh

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I don't know about WAGN but I think AGA had separate diagrams for the 1st and 2nd series units a few years ago. Of course in the real world, any unit turned up anywhere. The only units that tended to stick to the correct route were the Stansted units; 21 sets to cover 18 diagrams.

NX not AGA, although it didn't stay that way for long. Units in StanEx diagrams racked up mileage far faster than their classmates which had an obvious knock-on effect for scheduling unit maintenance. As a consequence they all became a common pool of units meaning that any sub-class could turn up on any working. But once they started to venture more onto the GE side, the nicer Cl317/7s were frequently the units poached for GE diagrams at the expense of the WA side.
 

Ewan M

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317661 now in the scrap line at Eastleigh Works it seems.
I know there is a separate forum for them but the last pair of LO 315s (315801 + 315815) went on their final journey today from Wembley Yard to Sims Metals Newport for scrapping
 
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I find it interesting how some people lament the scrapping of the various 3xx series EMUs. Worth remembering that they have actually been around longer than the VEPs and the second series CIGs were, and I remember them entering service on my trains to school in 1967. Blimey I feel old!
 

DustyBin

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I find it interesting how some people lament the scrapping of the various 3xx series EMUs. Worth remembering that they have actually been around longer than the VEPs and the second series CIGs were, and I remember them entering service on my trains to school in 1967. Blimey I feel old!

I very much mourned the passing of the CEPs, CIGs and VEPs at the time as well!

Just like the aforementioned slammers, for me the 3xx EMUs have been a constant feature on the railway. I’ve travelled on the 315s for as long as I can remember, albeit only occasionally, but they represent a childhood memory nonetheless. Likewise the MK3 based units, even if I didn’t travel on some classes (the 317s being an example actually) I certainly remember seeing them from an early age. For whatever reason I don’t find their replacements interesting and large uniform fleets are the stuff of nightmares from an enthusiast/interest perspective (I realise being interesting isn’t their primary purpose before anybody feels the need to point that out!).
 

physics34

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I very much mourned the passing of the CEPs, CIGs and VEPs at the time as well!

Just like the aforementioned slammers, for me the 3xx EMUs have been a constant feature on the railway. I’ve travelled on the 315s for as long as I can remember, albeit only occasionally, but they represent a childhood memory nonetheless. Likewise the MK3 based units, even if I didn’t travel on some classes (the 317s being an example actually) I certainly remember seeing them from an early age. For whatever reason I don’t find their replacements interesting and large uniform fleets are the stuff of nightmares from an enthusiast/interest perspective (I realise being interesting isn’t their primary purpose before anybody feels the need to point that out!).
I still am moaning slammers to be honest :(
 

D365

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Will there really be so many tears shed when the Class 317s are gone? They did their duty and have earned a long rest.
 

JohnElliott

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the 317/7 really does have the all-time all-comers worst looking Mark 3 cab end doesn't it? I mean there's strong competition but it was a rebuild that really went f*** it
I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as the Southern 455/8 rebuild.
 

Wivenswold

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I think sometimes it's not just the units themselves that we miss but the sights, sounds and even smells that are part of our very being. Trains are a big part of our lives in the way that music is for me, they bookmark other memories.
The main difference being is that it's easier to relive a favourite album or track.

For that reason I'm glad I've belatedly gotten into the old Train Simulator PC game, while the current outgoing crop of mass-produced units may not stir the same emotions as an A4, it'll be nice to be able to put a 317 on the PC and be back in those moment again.

The smaller details can often complete the biggest of memories.
 

Ciderking

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317655 + 317664 will be the next pair to head down to Eastleigh Works for disposal
 

DustyBin

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I think sometimes it's not just the units themselves that we miss but the sights, sounds and even smells that are part of our very being. Trains are a big part of our lives in the way that music is for me, they bookmark other memories.
The main difference being is that it's easier to relive a favourite album or track.

For that reason I'm glad I've belatedly gotten into the old Train Simulator PC game, while the current outgoing crop of mass-produced units may not stir the same emotions as an A4, it'll be nice to be able to put a 317 on the PC and be back in those moment again.

The smaller details can often complete the biggest of memories.

I think you’ve explained my/our fondness of what are, in reality, quite mundane units really well there.
 

387star

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The original WAGN franchise was pretty lethargic. The 313 refurbishment was a glorified refresh, and they never got a livery besides undercoat under the original franchise. Their stations got the bare minimum, and operationally they weren’t too clever either, cancellations common due to driver shortages, and an aversion to running any more than the bare minimum train lengths. Things only improved under National Express, however the 317/1s still only managed a fairly light refresh.
FCC hardly did a good job on the 317s or 313s with seat backs remaining brown and in 313s yellow doors and walls
Did National Express adopt the purple WAGN livery? Always confused me how the original livery on a few 317s was radically different and similar to swt. Presumably purple and green seats came in with the purple livery.
 

Domk

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LO liveried with Greater Anglia Vinyls! At Meridian Water
 

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O L Leigh

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Will there really be so many tears shed when the Class 317s are gone? They did their duty and have earned a long rest.

Will I shed tears? No, I don't think so. But the Cl317 is my basic traction and the first class I signed, and so I do feel a connection with them and will be sorry to see them go. Given that they've done almost 40 years of service I don't think anyone can deny that they've been a success story.
 

bramling

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FCC hardly did a good job on the 317s or 313s with seat backs remaining brown and in 313s yellow doors and walls
Did National Express adopt the purple WAGN livery? Always confused me how the original livery on a few 317s was radically different and similar to swt. Presumably purple and green seats came in with the purple livery.

The "SWT-style" livery you describe was done by the original WAGN franchise, and was only applied to the 24x 317/2s which were refurbished at the same time. The livery dates from the same time as SWT's, and I think came from the same designer.

The 313s were refurbished just after the 317s, however these were all outshopped in undercoat white, as IIRC the plan was for them to receive a separate livery, which was never in the event designed. That's the official story anyway, knowing Prism it wouldn't be entirely surprising to find they simply couldn't be bothered to pay! At around the same time the 317/7s were converted from 317/1s and given their own specific refurbishment and livery.

The next step I think was the WAGN/One split, which saw all the 317s bar 317337-348 going over to One, though I think some ex-LTS units worked on the GN for a short time in the interim, being replaced by the ex-SE 365s.

The remaining WAGN 317/1s remained completely untouched, both inside and out, until later in the National Express WAGN era when they received a light refurbishment which was basically an interior repaint and replacing the seat cushions to match the 365s. I forget if they were externally painted as part of this or separately, however all the units gained WAGN purple around this time, as did the 313s.

A light refresh was then applied by FCC which basically involved changing the seat covers and replacing the flooring, at the same time the units were also vinyled externally.
 

Glorious_NSE

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As a rare visitor, and even rarer poster, to the forum I found this thread interesting and nostalgic. I cannot vouch for the current state of the 317 fleet, now living as I do (perhaps ironically) not that far from Eastleigh but in NX days I did play a significant part in the allocation of 317s to the West Anglia route in particular.

The 317/6s were all given their white/grey/blue livery with red doors in Prism days whilst most 317/1s (or /3s) were still in NSE livery in 2003. Some had the modified livery with the green stripe over the NSE red having spent time on the LT&S route (now c2c) - they were in generally poor condition by 2004 and then had an early repaint into 'one' livery when it was realised that their heavy overhaul dates were overdue.

The 317/7 Stansted Express units were in a distinctive metallic blue livery and, as has been said, racked up more miles than the rest of the fleet due to the intensive diagrams. All units were, in WAGN days, maintained at Hornsey although when 'one' started operation the aim was to move the West Anglia fleet to Ilford as quickly as possible. When the fleet was divided between 'WA' and 'GN' the initial plan was for a mix of /3 and /6 units to go to both Great Northern and West Anglia operations but as GN had the advantage of 365s whilst /6s were the best general purpose units on offer for WA, I personally persuaded the fleet team to allocate all /6s to WA.

Come 2005 with plans for a new timetable and it was obvious that additional capacity was needed on Stansted Express trains so some of the /3s were converted into 'Stansted Lite' units to work paired with a 317/7, dedicated to the airport service. At the same time some of the /3s became standard class only for the Hertford East service which was altered from operating via Seven Sisters to run via Tottenham Hale and the Lea Valley. This meant that all trains running down the Lea Valley were formed of basically the same kind of train, i.e. all 317s albeit with different internal layouts, so timetabling for service reliability was much better.

The 317/7s were declared surplus to requirements by Abellio when they took over the Greater Anglia franchise - the units went to storage in Eastleigh. They were extracted from there in 2015 for London Overground, another project I was heavily involved in, and were reliveried for the West Anglia Inners. As such the only initial internal change was the sealing up of the toilets - a quick and easy modification as the units were only expected to be in LO service for a couple of years. But that's another story...

M
 

Jamesrob637

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Will there really be so many tears shed when the Class 317s are gone? They did their duty and have earned a long rest.

No USBs, Wifi or air-conditioning. The majority won't lament that.
 

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