Class 319 Northern departure

[jonesy3001]

As Jonesy says 331104 is on the 1630 LIV-MCV and 1729 return which has been a 319 turn.

Ends up in Blackpool later this evening.

 

[170UTD]

So what's the final date of the 319s? December change or does the lease expire at the end of November?

 

[jonesy3001]

So what's the final date of the 319s? December change or does the lease expire at the end of November?

End of November.

 

[Andrew Holland]

Wigan commuters who value a shorter journey time by not stopping at every station between Wigan and Manchester. The 0739 is well loaded when it runs.
Plus the 0836 has been useful for picking up cancelled stops if the 0802 Liverpool Lime St to Manchester Airport is too overcrowded to serve Eccles and Patricroft.

Plus for people who work at MCUK and live in Wigan (such as my wife) this service is invaluable, providing a non stop fast service to Eccles, or at least it used to be invaluable until they messed around with the Metrolink timetables in September resulting in no daytime service to MCUK from Eccles. All trams now skip that tram stop, meaning she'd have to walk from Broadway, thus destroying much of the time advantage these "express" workings provide. A classic example of non-joined up thinking between NR and TfGM imho.

 

[stan claire]

The 331 swaps start this week between skipton and allerton depots.
First movement from skipton tomorrow 20th then a allerton to skipton and back on tuesday, same on thursday and friday, they will be moving one at a time so could take a couple of weeks.
Monday.
Skipton to allerton,

Realtime Trains | 5Q36 1200 Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. to Allerton Depot | 20/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q36 1200 departure from Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. to Allerton Depot on 20/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Tuesday.
Allerton to skipton,

Realtime Trains | 5Q17 0400 Allerton Depot to Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. | 21/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q17 0400 departure from Allerton Depot to Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. on 21/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Skipton to allerton,

Realtime Trains | 5Q36 1201 Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. to Allerton Depot | 21/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q36 1201 departure from Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. to Allerton Depot on 21/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thursday.
Allerton to skipton

Realtime Trains | 5Q17 0400 Allerton Depot to Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. | 23/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q17 0400 departure from Allerton Depot to Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. on 23/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Skipton to allerton.

Realtime Trains | 5Q36 1201 Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. to Allerton Depot | 23/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q36 1201 departure from Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. to Allerton Depot on 23/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Friday.
Allerton to skipton.

Realtime Trains | 5Q17 0400 Allerton Depot to Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. | 24/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q17 0400 departure from Allerton Depot to Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. on 24/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Skipton to allerton.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04656/2023-11-24/detailed.

And the loco that'll be doing the moving.

Realtime Trains | 0N20 0553 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. | 20/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 0N20 0553 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. on 20/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

So with one 331 a day being swapped between depots, will both /0 and /1 be in service before timetables change? Northern with all their competence yesterday and today have decided that 3 carriages on two of the busiest Blackpool - Airport services (0722 BPN - MIA and 17:17 MIA - BPN formed with 331021) are all fine (the Blackpool service had to skip DGT and SLD because of overcrowding)
If they’re planning on operating over the Christmas rush (with people using trains to get to the airport) I can’t imagine the chaos that short formations and unit shortages will cause

 

[childwallblues]

So with one 331 a day being swapped between depots, will both /0 and /1 be in service before timetables change? Northern with all their competence yesterday and today have decided that 3 carriages on two of the busiest Blackpool - Airport services (0722 BPN - MIA and 17:17 MIA - BPN formed with 331021) are all fine (the Blackpool service had to skip DGT and SLD because of overcrowding)
If they’re planning on operating over the Christmas rush (with people using trains to get to the airport) I can’t imagine the chaos that short formations and unit shortages will cause

331104 was in service yesterday afternoon out of Liverpool.

 

[jonesy3001]

331104 was in service yesterday afternoon out of Liverpool.

Was changed for a 319 apparently, there was a fault with 104 like 002 at skipton that's why 107 wasn't transferred yesterday.

 

[Greybeard33]

Plus for people who work at MCUK and live in Wigan (such as my wife) this service is invaluable, providing a non stop fast service to Eccles, or at least it used to be invaluable until they messed around with the Metrolink timetables in September resulting in no daytime service to MCUK from Eccles. All trams now skip that tram stop, meaning she'd have to walk from Broadway, thus destroying much of the time advantage these "express" workings provide. A classic example of non-joined up thinking between NR and TfGM imho.

I have replied to this in the Manchester Metrolink thread.

So with one 331 a day being swapped between depots, will both /0 and /1 be in service before timetables change? Northern with all their competence yesterday and today have decided that 3 carriages on two of the busiest Blackpool - Airport services (0722 BPN - MIA and 17:17 MIA - BPN formed with 331021) are all fine (the Blackpool service had to skip DGT and SLD because of overcrowding)
If they’re planning on operating over the Christmas rush (with people using trains to get to the airport) I can’t imagine the chaos that short formations and unit shortages will cause

According to the Northern LTP diagrams those two Blackpool - Airport services are still booked as 6-car after the December timetable change. However, on the days when cross-Pennine swaps occur, there must inevitably be an increased risk of short forms.

 

[50032]

End of November.

Is this for definite?

There are 12 SX class 319 diagrams to cover, and not all the 331 swaps will have taken place by the 30th November.

 

[jonesy3001]

Is this for definite?

There are 12 SX class 319 diagrams to cover, and not all the 331 swaps will have taken place by the 30th November.

See the 1st post in the thread

 

[50032]

See the 1st post in the thread

I don't see any definitive answers there. If someone is "in the know" then it would be good to have confirmation.

Train crew diagrams will no doubt continue to say 319 traction until the timetable change.

 

[jonesy3001]

I don't see any definitive answers there. If someone is "in the know" then it would be good to have confirmation.

Train crew diagrams will no doubt continue to say 319 traction until the timetable change.

The 319s are going off lease at the end of the month and 2 will be going for scrap each week, 375 was the first, that's why northern are short forming services to cover.

 

[Leyland155]

I don't see any definitive answers there. If someone is "in the know" then it would be good to have confirmation.

Train crew diagrams will no doubt continue to say 319 traction until the timetable change.

This is correct, all our diagrams show 319s until the December timetable change. Though obviously these could be STP'd should they be gone by the end of November.

 

[diligentdave]

This is correct, all our diagrams show 319s until the December timetable change. Though obviously these could be STP'd should they be gone by the end of November.

I think it's 6 that will go before the December timetable change. I know the numbers, I'll post them tomorrow. The rest will be going between TT change and early Jan.

 

[jonesy3001]

Do you know the orders of the 331s that are swapping or is it just which ones are available?

 

[childwallblues]

Today 367 368 and 384 were on LIV-BPN services, I rode 368 from BPN to WGN and sat under the pantograph which made a lovely loud whining sound¬

 

[Greybeard33]

Today 367 368 and 384 were on LIV-BPN services, I rode 368 from BPN to WGN and sat under the pantograph which made a lovely loud whining sound¬

I think the whining noise in the motor coach is from the traction motors, not the pantograph.

 

[Geeves]

I rode 368 today too. You can hear the motors of course but you can hear the 25 thousand volts coming from just above your head and through that little pipe!

 

[Leyland155]

I think it's 6 that will go before the December timetable change. I know the numbers, I'll post them tomorrow. The rest will be going between TT change and early Jan.

Thanks, that would be interesting to see! We've not been told an official exit date, but I have to say, I'd be very surprised if they were all gone by end of November.

 

[david l]

I would certainly take what diligentdave says as correct. He's well in the know.

Managed to see 331104 on the 21.15 LLSt-Blackpool N tonight, passing 319384 and 319xxx at Wigan. Unusually though 156401 was on the a LLSt-Blackpool N tonight

 

[Jamesrob637]

Think I've done my final Northern 319 then, quite a while ago since they were swapped to mainly focus out of Liverpool.

 

[diligentdave]

Right then:

319378 & 319383 should depart on the 29th Nov.
319370 & 319381 on the 8th Dec.
319367 & 319379 on the 13th Dec.
319366 & 319372 on the 20th Dec.
319361 & 319368 on the 22nd Dec.
319369 & 319384 on the 4th Jan.
319385 & 319386 on the 9th Jan.

Dates/unit numbers are subject to change and cancellation, so don't shoot the messenger.

 

[50032]

I work for Northern and I've asked the question... The 319s AREN'T going off lease on 30th November, so that puts that myth to bed.

They'll continue to run up to the timetable change (9th December last day in theory). They won't be on train crew diagrams from the 10th, so would only appear beyond this date in dire emergency (until the final pair have gone for scrap).

This is all subject to the 331 swap plan, which is now behind schedule having had two moves cancelled this week.

So make the most of the 319s up to the 9th December, but remember they will start dropping off diagrams in favour of 331/1 units. 331104 has been on a 319 diagram yesterday and today for example.

Also factor in the Drivers overtime ban 1st-7th December could mean pre-planned cancellations, and there's a strike on 8th December too.

Hopefully Northern will confirm the final 319 working(s) once they know.

 

[jonesy3001]

When is the next round of transfers for the 331s now, best of moving them in multiples rather than singles.

 

[50032]

When is the next round of transfers for the 331s now, best of moving them in multiples rather than back and forth.

M, Tu, Th & F - next four 331 transfers next week. They're moving singularly, don't ask me why. Perhaps the loco can only power 110v electrics to one set at a time.

Newport 319 scrap move - WO.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Could they do some moves at weekends to clear the backlog given this week's cancellations?

 

[jonesy3001]

M, Tu, Th & F - next four 331 transfers next week. They're moving singularly, don't ask me why. Perhaps the loco can only power 110v electrics to one set at a time.

Newport 319 scrap move - WO.

Shame they can't use 2 locos for the movements incase one of them goes pop.
Will it be the 331/0s that are available to move to skipton or have they set on which 9 they're sending for now?

 

[50032]

Could they do some moves at weekends to clear the backlog given this week's cancellations?

Do ROG work weekends?

Will it be the 331/0s that are available to move to skipton or have they set on which 9 they're sending for now?

I don't know that info, sorry.

 

[Leyland155]

Right then:

319378 & 319383 should depart on the 29th Nov.
319370 & 319381 on the 8th Dec.
319367 & 319379 on the 13th Dec.
319366 & 319372 on the 20th Dec.
319361 & 319368 on the 22nd Dec.
319369 & 319384 on the 4th Jan.
319385 & 319386 on the 9th Jan.

Dates/unit numbers are subject to change and cancellation, so don't shoot the messenger.

Thanks for that!

I work for Northern and I've asked the question... The 319s AREN'T going off lease on 30th November, so that puts that myth to bed.

They'll continue to run up to the timetable change (9th December last day in theory). They won't be on train crew diagrams from the 10th, so would only appear beyond this date in dire emergency (until the final pair have gone for scrap).

This is all subject to the 331 swap plan, which is now behind schedule having had two moves cancelled this week.

So make the most of the 319s up to the 9th December, but remember they will start dropping off diagrams in favour of 331/1 units. 331104 has been on a 319 diagram yesterday and today for example.

Also factor in the Drivers overtime ban 1st-7th December could mean pre-planned cancellations, and there's a strike on 8th December too.

Hopefully Northern will confirm the final 319 working(s) once they know.

I've just seen similar, I imagine they'll keep the remaining ones on standby after timetable change as you say.

 

[darylyates17]

Will 319s still be on LIV-BPNs on the 7th? That's when I plan to have my last ride due the strike on the 8th and being busy on the 9th.