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Class 345 progress
- Thread starter samuelmorris
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Yes, looks like there is activity there tonight - the live maps show a possession of the line including the tracks from the Depot.
https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/d3_1
Interestingly, while the workings show on the maps, as the route through to Old Oak Depot appears to be under a possession the movements aren't timetabled so don't show here
https://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackI...toRefresh=False&Estimate=False&DisplayMode=TD
I did wonder whether testing was still happening without the movements ever appearing on TrackIt.
Apparently 9T07 will be a 345 on Wednesday 10th - Friday 12th.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
This will be one 345 circuit to Heathrow, the first to run.
Realtime Trains - 9T07 0532 London Paddington to Heathrow Airport Terminal 4
Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
This will be one 345 circuit to Heathrow, the first to run.
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paulravuslante
Member
Afraid to say 9T07 was run by a 360 today. It was planned to be a 345 but was changed last minute yesterday afternoon. See what tomorrow brings though...Apparently 9T07 will be a 345 on Wednesday 10th - Friday 12th.
Realtime Trains - 9T07 0532 London Paddington to Heathrow Airport Terminal 4
Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.
This will be one 345 circuit to Heathrow, the first to run.
Just reading through lots of these from May onwards.
What has happened to the 360s to cause their reliability to drop so low? Are Anglia finding the same problems with their 360s?
Can someone summarise why 345s are still not carrying passengers through Heathrow tunnels?
What has happened to the 360s to cause their reliability to drop so low? Are Anglia finding the same problems with their 360s?
Can someone summarise why 345s are still not carrying passengers through Heathrow tunnels?
360s - Heathrow not spending much on maintaining them after the initial maintenance contract (and follow on contract) expired a few years ago (loss making for Siemens and Heathrow not wanting to pay actual costs)
345s - they got a lot of approval at once 5 weeks ago, the focus appears to have been gradual change of swapping remain 7car units on the Western side and lengthening some units back to 9car. (7cars can't operate on ETCS so sensibly having an all 9car fleet on the Western side is good move)
Getting 9car units more reliable and bedded in before going to Heathrow is wise... (and staff more used to ETCS computer resets?!?)
It is unclear how many drivers had training to use ETCS in the tunnels before Covid restrictions on training so there may be a limited driver pool?
There are also some further software tweaks due this month
The next stage of ETCS go live on the section inwards of the current change over point of Heathrow Junction should be happening at the moment hence possibly waiting for this to have happened before doing a total swap
Hence with things quiet, easier to wait?
The general crossrail policy seems to be little steps rather than big changes at the moment.
It does seem that they have finally got to the point of running all 9-car on the Western side now with no 7-cars since they were swapped out at the weekend. There had typically been 2 7-cars out prior to this week swapping over mid-morning. Current fleet for passenger services from observations on the Slough webcam appears to be 021/27/28/34/35/37/53/54/55/58/60/61/63/64/65 - ie 15 units, with a handful of others running on the daily 5G50-5G61 runs.
On the training front, what is the purpose of the 5G50-5G61 runs to and from Reading every day? Are these running in for the units or some element of training? They seemed to run empty units to both Reading and Heathrow throughout March and April.
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paulravuslante
Member
Think it’s a bit of both training (route retention) and mileage accumulation (fault free running).
iphone76
Member
I noticed unit 052 was in the new sidings at Ilford dept today. (And possibly from the weekend). I presume it is a 9 car as it is sitting proud of the other units stabled there.
I was wondering about 5G50-5G61 runs having any purpose other than training as it is usually units that are in service.
I am yet to see 59 on Slough Cam but may have missed it.
Thanks for the continuing info.
No. 052 is one of the 7-car conversions still working in normal service out of Ilford.
7-car conversions 020/029/038/039/040/042/049/052/056 remain on the east side. Some will move back to the west side for conversion back to 9-car as swaps for 007/013/015/017/022 which are still on the west side but you would expect that some will remain at Ilford to maintain a sufficiently large fleet. The original plan appears to have had 17 7-car 345s operating out of Ilford until through running started.
Sorry, yes you are right, 059 has only been seen on the 5G50-5G61 workings. It appeared a few days at the end of last week. The current units on 5G50-5G61 workings appear to be 004/043/059/062/066/070, following the recent (re-)introduction of 034/035/055/061/065 into service.
5G70/5G71 appear to be a hot spare at Maidenhead for the morning peak and 5G72/5G73 appear to be a hot spare for Paddington in the evening peak. These are often the same unit (now from the normal fleet of 15 9-car passenger units).
Fairly sure its mostly mileage accumulation although some of the mileage being accumulated isn't exactly mindblowing haha.
Several 9-car 345s have been withdrawn from traffic today, due to software faults. Being replaced by 7-cars.
Edit: Seemingly a fairly large issue as its still ongoing and causing cancellations on Friday morning. Furthermore they don't appear to be on CIS at all.
Edit: Seemingly a fairly large issue as its still ongoing and causing cancellations on Friday morning. Furthermore they don't appear to be on CIS at all.
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paulravuslante
Member
Due to this all 5 class 360s are out in service this morning (3 on scheduled Heathrow duties and 2 on Hayes peak services).
According to Wikipedia today is 15 years since the class 360/2s started running in service. Coincidence?
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One complete cycle (5P02 05+12 MDNHDCS-MAI / 9P02 0516 MAI-PAD / 9R12 0613 PAD-RDG / 9R20 0722 RDG-PAD / 9R30 0828 PAD-RDG / 5N04 09+33 RDG-MDNHDCS) cancelled outright by the looks of things. The unit which worked the last down service from Paddington last night has remained in Maidenhead Carriage Sidings. This unit appears not to have swapped out last night so should be 345053 from observations earlier yesterday.
It looks like the 7-car substitution was achieved by sending two units to Maidenhead last night on the test runs (5G54 2014 OLDOXRS - MDNHDCS / 5G60 2032 OLDOXRS - MDNHDCS) as swaps (these left Old Oak Depot at 2016 and 2054) for 9-cars that have early finishes and then other substitutions at Paddington for the 2213, 2243 and 2313 departures.
Note: OLDOXRS = Old Oak Depot, MDNHDCS = Maidenhead Carriage Sidings, MAI = Maidenhead, PAD = London Paddington, RDG = Reading.
Units out this morning then as follows
345051 9P14 0645 Maidenhead to London Paddington
345044 9P16 0652 Reading to London Paddington
345049 9P18 0705 Reading to London Paddington
Cancelled 9P20 0722 Reading to London Paddington
345013 9R14 0628 London Paddington to Reading
345017 9R16 0643 London Paddington to Reading
345007 9R20 0658 London Paddington to Reading
345015 9R22 0713 London Paddington to Reading
345022 9R24 0728 London Paddington to Reading
I assume from this that 345047 and 345057 are potentially no longer available as 7-cars.
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Test run to Reading (5T09 / 5Y09) tonight - too late in the day to identify the unit on the camera feed but it was a 7-car.
5T09 2000 Old Oak Depot to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/29677/2020-06-13/detailed
5Y09 2125 Reading to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/29680/2020-06-13/detailed
5T09 2000 Old Oak Depot to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/29677/2020-06-13/detailed
5Y09 2125 Reading to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/29680/2020-06-13/detailed
Hi All
I appreciate there has been some fantastic updates over the last few weeks/months (particular thanks to Jonathan) but I haven't seen a full location list for a good while. Is it possible for anyone to bring us up to date with those 7/9 cars still at Worksop and particularly those sat in Old Oak Common sidings. I had a wander along the canal path today for my daily exercise and could pick out the 4 closest sets (062/028/043 & 026) but I think all roads were full and it looked very much like the overwhelming majority were 9 cars.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Rob
I appreciate there has been some fantastic updates over the last few weeks/months (particular thanks to Jonathan) but I haven't seen a full location list for a good while. Is it possible for anyone to bring us up to date with those 7/9 cars still at Worksop and particularly those sat in Old Oak Common sidings. I had a wander along the canal path today for my daily exercise and could pick out the 4 closest sets (062/028/043 & 026) but I think all roads were full and it looked very much like the overwhelming majority were 9 cars.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Rob
What I can indicate is purely based on daily observations on the Slough Railcam feed, postings here and on the WNXX forum and on the ukmodernemu group but I think there is a fairly good consensus of what is where now.
First of all, with thanks to the problem which has beset the 9-car units since Thursday night, there appear to currently be 26 7-car units and 44 9-car units. 18 of the 7-car units are working on the east side and 8 on the west side. It appears that 345047 and 345057 may well be in the process of conversion from 7-car to 9-car as both are reported at Old Oak Depot and neither have appeared in service in the current 7-car operation, nor have they been observed 'running in' as 9-cars. 345047 was last in service west side on 28 May. 345057 went from Ilford to Old Oak Depot on 19 May.
If we assume that 345047 and 345057 have been reunited with their missing coaches:
- 345003/05-17/20/22/29/38-40/42/44/49/51/52/56 are 7-cars (26)
- 345001/02/04/18/19/21/23-28/30-37/41/43/45-48/50/53-55/57-70 are 9-cars (44)
Today, of the 7-car units on the west side 345007/13/17/22/49 were in service and 345015 spent the day at Maidenhead. 345051 arrived at Old Oak Depot at 1331 and 345044 left for Maidenhead at 1415. This is why almost all of the units at Old Oak Depot would have been 9-cars today. There was also a 7-car swap at Paddington between two 7-car 345s for the 1943 departure to Reading.
Of the 9-cars, it is known that 345018 is at Ilford, 345019 is at Old Dalby and 345045/46/48 are at Worksop. There are also carriages for the high numbered 7-car units at Worksop. I haven't read where the 3404xx and 3406xx vehicles for 345001/3/5-17 are stored - are they at Worksop? 345001 is still reported to have the coaches from 345022.
All the other units are based at Old Oak Depot.
- 345021/27/28/34/35/37/53/54/55/58/60/61/63/64/65 have all been seen in service on the west side - 15 units for effectively 12 diagrams each day (one of which is a 'hot spare' at Maidenhead in the morning and Portolbello Junction in the evening) - Heathrow will need a further six diagrams in due course.
- 345004/30/43/59/62/66/70 have all been seen running to Reading on the 5G50-5G61 test runs which go daily.
- 345001/02/23/26/47/57/67-69 appear to be spare at Old Oak [1]
These units should all have been at Old Oak Depot today. I think there is room for 42 units there - 33 stabling roads and 9 for heavy maintenance. The lists above suggest 15+7+9 = 31 9-car units.
This leaves 345024/25/31/32/33/36/41/50 which are reported to be the units used for tunnel testing. As I can't go to investigate myself, I don't know what happens with these or whether some of the 'spare' units are now in this group. Unit movements from Old Oak Depot to the tunnel appear to be done with the route under possession. When there was testing at the Pudding Mill Junction portal last weekend, it appeared that the units for this came from Abbey Wood rather than Old Oak Depot. I guess therefore that, at any given time, some of these are at Old Oak Depot and some are stabled at Abbey Wood.
[1] Some movements into or around Old Oak Depot appear to be given the headcode 5Ixx where xx is the unit number. Often the signaller will cancel the unit from the signalling diagrams before the unit is interposed with this headcode. However, not all. This indicates that 345002 and 345023 have been involved in some running.
Jonathan, thanks so much for such a detailed reply. It's very much appreciated. I should have mentioned I did see all of the west side 7 car sets you mention so I can confirm your notes on those are spot on. Cheers Rob
345057 is back in service this morning as a 7-car unit - just passed Slough on 9P20 0722 Reading to London Paddington which suggests that it was the unit swapped in at Paddington last night for the 1943 departure.
Still 7-car operation this morning.
Still 7-car operation this morning.
Dstock7080
Established Member
software fault affecting operation of AWS. 22x 9-car withdrawn.
absolutelymilk
Established Member
- Joined
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What's AWS?
Automatic warning system
A train protection system that slams the breaks on if a driver passes a signal at danger
samuelmorris
Established Member
Are you not thinking of TPWS for that? AWS is just the warning system that applies the brakes if the driver doesn't respond to hazard notifications.
Yea I always mix them up
7-car operation continues today on the west side of London using the nine available units
Four 360s out with half hourly services to Heathrow supplemented by an hourly shuttle to Hayes & Harlington during the morning peak.
Seems fortunate that this has happened while the 360s and 7-car 345s are still available.
Four 360s out with half hourly services to Heathrow supplemented by an hourly shuttle to Hayes & Harlington during the morning peak.
Seems fortunate that this has happened while the 360s and 7-car 345s are still available.
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