Class 345 progress

[ScotGG]

Lets hope it has far less issues than the 700s have on Thameslink. Five months until they first run in public service isn't it?

Just how much of a revolution is it from the 387s?

 

[childwallblues]

Maybe it's my age - but I find yellow fronts odd!

Does not look like there is any room for yellow.

 

[swt_passenger]

Does not look like there is any room for yellow.

There would probably be just enough room for the minimum required area of yellow that would be used on an EMU, which is only a 1 square metre patch, but with a minimum dimension of only 60 cm. So a 1.67 m x 0.6 m area between window and coupler would be OK.

Most of the yellow area on existing units is far in excess of the actual requirement.

 

[Class377/5]

Lets hope it has far less issues than the 700s have on Thameslink. Five months until they first run in public service isn't it?

Just how much of a revolution is it from the 387s?

Sooner than that.

To be fair the 700s are a completely new type of train and SWT won't have to do quite so much testing as GTR had to.

 

[fgwrich]

Sooner than that.

To be fair the 700s are a completely new type of train and SWT won't have to do quite so much testing as GTR had to.

Not least they'll potentially have less issues to deal with too - The 700s having to work with ATO & AC/DC changeovers en-route, something the 707s wont have to be dealing with.

 

[Via Bank]

This thread is to discuss the Crossrail Aventra units, not SWT 707s.

My "expert's prediction" is that they'll be a reliability disaster for the first few weeks, before bedding in. Much like all new equipment tends to be.

 

[Class377/5]

This thread is to discuss the Crossrail Aventra units, not SWT 707s.

My "expert's prediction" is that they'll be a reliability disaster for the first few weeks, before bedding in. Much like all new equipment tends to be.

Indeed. It's as much unit issues as driver familiarly in the early days.

 

[samuelmorris]

I thought the whole point of introducing them this early was to intentionally go through all that now so that potential issues when the really crucial central section opens are minimised. They'll also potentially be doing the proving work for the Aventra series as a whole - I imagine the 710 and (whatever class the GA units will be) deployments will be made simpler by virtue of this.

 

[Roast Veg]

That was undoubtedly part of their reasoning for purchasing them. The more any model is manufactured, the more reliable it promises to be. It's a brute force trial for defects that you as a purchaser don't have to pay for.

 

[CP165]

345 undergoing climatic wind tunnel tests in Austria. Photo courtesy of TfL.

They must have to insulate the open gangway really well to conduct the testing!

 

[The Growl]

345 undergoing climatic wind tunnel tests in Austria. Photo courtesy of TfL.

They must have to insulate the open gangway really well to conduct the testing!

Why on earth would a metro train going through tunnels and brushing against diesel traction have open gangways? Ventilation or something?

 

[Domh245]

Why on earth would a metro train going through tunnels and brushing against diesel traction have open gangways? Ventilation or something?

Note that it is a single car in the testing chamber. In service, there will be something attached to the gangway at the rear that could otherwise be described as open at the time of the photo unless there were to be some form of insulation.

 

[JN114]

Why would they need to insulate the gangway? It's testing whether the train still works (electrics etc) in extreme weather conditions.

 

[fredk]

Why would they need to insulate the gangway? It's testing whether the train still works (electrics etc) in extreme weather conditions.

Because they only have 1 car of the train and it would affect the results if there were a huge hole at one end.

 

[AM9]

Why would they need to insulate the gangway? It's testing whether the train still works (electrics etc) in extreme weather conditions.

Just think about your comment. The test vehicle is a single car with a full gangway at the opposite end to the driving cab. This gangway doesn't have any door as it is permanently open through the train. Now if you are testing the train in sub-zero temperatures, it is reasonable to assume that it refers to the extermnal temperature. So just as the passengers appreciate that the temperature of the train is controlled, so do all the internal systems, fabrics and finishings perform as intended in that environment.
Thus it is necessary to place an insulated closure over the exposed gangway opening during this test to replicate real-world climatic conditions.

 

[Class 170101]

345 undergoing climatic wind tunnel tests in Austria. Photo courtesy of TfL.

Surely the train's failed as the driver cannot see out of the front window?

 

[The Growl]

Note that it is a single car in the testing chamber. In service, there will be something attached to the gangway at the rear that could otherwise be described as open at the time of the photo unless there were to be some form of insulation.

Oh ok. Hadn't noticed it was only a single carriage.

 

[J-2739]

Surely the train's failed as the driver cannot see out of the front window?

They have wipers. Or perhaps a scraper will be utilised in these scenarios.

 

[JN114]

Just think about your comment. The test vehicle is a single car with a full gangway at the opposite end to the driving cab. This gangway doesn't have any door as it is permanently open through the train. Now if you are testing the train in sub-zero temperatures, it is reasonable to assume that it refers to the extermnal temperature. So just as the passengers appreciate that the temperature of the train is controlled, so do all the internal systems, fabrics and finishings perform as intended in that environment.
Thus it is necessary to place an insulated closure over the exposed gangway opening during this test to replicate real-world climatic conditions.

Its nothing to do with interior comfort, finishings etc, it's a test of mechanical system function in extreme conditions. Im well aware there is an open gangway at one end, my point is that should have no bearing on mechanical function and therefore this test.

 

[Class377/5]

I thought the whole point of introducing them this early was to intentionally go through all that now so that potential issues when the really crucial central section opens are minimised. They'll also potentially be doing the proving work for the Aventra series as a whole - I imagine the 710 and (whatever class the GA units will be) deployments will be made simpler by virtue of this.

Not really. The 345 are 23m carriages and the 710 are 20m so guaging wise there nothing the 345 work will help on the 710 project plus the 345 and 710 will operate on different sections of tracks so they will need full testing on those routes.

 

[AM9]

Its nothing to do with interior comfort, finishings etc, it's a test of mechanical system function in extreme conditions. Im well aware there is an open gangway at one end, my point is that should have no bearing on mechanical function and therefore this test.

If the train car is inert then the temperature will be the same inside and out (eventually) but things change when the temperature is returned to ambient. The ice in the chamber will melt and condense as water - particularly on the interior surfaces, including upholstery, internal wall and ceiling panels, internal electronics - (PIS maybe), - indeed all of those surfaces and spaces not intended to operate under those conditions. There isn't a problem with the exterior as that is protected against water ingress such as rain, spray, snow etc.. So the fix is to close the open gangway aperture off with an insulated door/panel. If the insulation wasn't of similar performance to the main body, its inner surface would be iced up and would also drive the interior below spec. causing the condensation issues covered above.
If the train car is powered with the internal temperature maintained at a service design temperature, the open gangway would need to be closed off to allow the heating to perform correctly.

 

[Harbon 1]

Some of the carriages have internal doors which I assume operate in an emergency. Can't remember whether the DMs have them or not, I don't get much time on the assembly line.

 

[Geeves]

If its anything like the 323s that were also tested here along with others, then they just put a big chunk of gangway shaped wood over the end. Not too complicated

 

[phoenixcronin]

Some of the carriages have internal doors which I assume operate in an emergency. Can't remember whether the DMs have them or not, I don't get much time on the assembly line.

Do you mean the divider type things found between some Class 700 cars?

 

[Domh245]

Its nothing to do with interior comfort, finishings etc, it's a test of mechanical system function in extreme conditions. Im well aware there is an open gangway at one end, my point is that should have no bearing on mechanical function and therefore this test.

Quoting the BBC:

Operations director Howard Smith said: "It's important that we check that the new trains can operate in anything that the changing British weather can throw at them and it won't be long before our customers will be able to get on board a train."
Weather simulations tested the heating, ventilation, air-conditioning system, windscreen wipers, demister, train horns and traction motors.

I would argue that the HVAC systems are most definitely there for passenger comfort!

 

[Hophead]

Quoting the BBC:



I would argue that the HVAC systems are most definitely there for passenger comfort!

When I read that quote from the BBC report, I couldn't help noticing the omission of "doors". I'm hoping they will be as reliable as the rest of the systems tested once they encounter a British winter.

 

[306024]

Some of the carriages have internal doors which I assume operate in an emergency. Can't remember whether the DMs have them or not, I don't get much time on the assembly line.

Really? Best you keep away from the assembly line in that case

The only internal doors on a class 345 are from the driving cab into the train. The rest of the train is just one big open space to cope with passenger loadings.

 

[Domh245]

Really? Best you keep away from the assembly line in that case

The only internal doors on a class 345 are from the driving cab into the train. The rest of the train is just one big open space to cope with passenger loadings.

I expect that there will be some sort of emergency partition doors that'll be able to be deployed in the event of smoke in the passenger area.

 

[jon0844]

I expect that there will be some sort of emergency partition doors that'll be able to be deployed in the event of smoke in the passenger area.

Once I was told about them, they became easy to see on the 700s.

 

[The Growl]

When I read that quote from the BBC report, I couldn't help noticing the omission of "doors". I'm hoping they will be as reliable as the rest of the systems tested once they encounter a British winter.

Well as long as the electrics aren't affected, along with internal mechanisms, it should all be fine.