Class 345 progress

[samuelmorris]

The 'Elizabeth Line' moniker almost certainly has a lot to do with that I bet! As I mentioned before, I have no issue with her voice, as long as they program it correctly

 

[ijmad]

How was the aircon?

About 22-23C, basically office temperature.
Not as chilly as the 18C that the Class 700s seem to be stuck on.

 

[rebmcr]

Can anone post a close-up of the line map (from above the doors/windows inside) please?

 

[ijmad]

Can anone post a close-up of the line map (from above the doors/windows inside) please?

Not exactly a 'close-up' but one of my shots shows most of the detail. Right now it's just the TfL Rail route, no Crossrail on the diagram.

 

[hwl]

How was the aircon?

Perfect

 

[class387]

Perfect

Yes, agreed.

 

[Uzair]

Not my video, but this shows the (very simple) DVA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex1XbNwARlc

 

[swt class 450]

I went on the 345 this morning and have to say these are a complete pile of rubbish compared to the 315s in my opinion. I much prefer the 315s. It was certainly nice though to have a ride on them and to see what they were like.

Firstly the air conditioning was alright and seemed to work well. However the air conditioning certainly wasn't as good as some other trains (for example the 700s and some other Siemens Desiro trains have much better cooler air conditioning).

The 315s are much more comfortable and pleasent to travel on. The 315s have a normal seating layout where as the 345s have far too much longitudal seating. The seats on the 315s also feel a bit more comfortable than the 345s. The 345s are totally unsuitable for the type of work they will be used on. They feel like the sort of trains that should be found on short distance metro services (like the Victoria Line) rather than long distance National Rail services from Reading to Shenfield etc. The lack of much luggage space is also a failure considering they will be used to and from Heathrow Airport soon.

The lack of door close buttons is a huge mistake. I don't know who decided this. In the summer (to keep it cool) and in the winter (to keep it warm) passengers should be able to close the doors themselves. I know the doors close automatically after 30 seconds (or something like that) but that is not good enough as passengers should have the option to close the doors when they wish to.

The automated announcements and display screens are alright but it is certainly not as good as the 315s. I'm glad though that they choose Emma Hignett rather then some robotic voice which lots of TOCs seem to be doing (such as the SWT 707s which are going to be using the Acapela Rachael [Text To Speech] system). The 315s would list all the stations that the train is calling at on departure from each and every station but the 345s don't do this. So the information they give to passengers is going downhill (which is typical of TFL seeing that they wont ever publish paper timetables any more).

The lack of plug sockets is another big mistake. Nowadays plug sockets are a big necessity on all trains. I would say plug sockets are more important than WIFI on trains. Especially as these are National Rail trains being used for long distances.

The final (and perhaps the biggest failure) is not building these as 12 coach trains. I know they will eventually be extended to 9 coaches but that still wont be enough. Within a few years of Crossrail opening it will be far too overcrowded. So 12 coach 345s should of been built. Less than 12 coaches wont be enough.

Also i believe they should have been built with four doors on each side (similar to the C stock) to help with overcrowding and boarding and alighting times in Central London. There is plenty of room for a four door layout.

So overall in my opinion the trains are poorly designed and unsuitable for the work they will be used on.

 

[J-2739]

I went on the 345 this morning and have to say these are a complete pile of rubbish compared to the 315s in my opinion. I much prefer the 315s. It was certainly nice though to have a ride on them and to see what they were like.

Firstly the air conditioning was alright and seemed to work well. However the air conditioning certainly wasn't as good as some other trains (for example the 700s and some other Siemens Desiro trains have much better cooler air conditioning).

The 315s are much more comfortable and pleasent to travel on. The 315s have a normal seating layout where as the 345s have far too much longitudal seating. The seats on the 315s also feel a bit more comfortable than the 345s. The 345s are totally unsuitable for the type of work they will be used on. They feel like the sort of trains that should be found on short distance metro services (like the Victoria Line) rather than long distance National Rail services from Reading to Shenfield etc. The lack of much luggage space is also a failure considering they will be used to and from Heathrow Airport soon.

The lack of door close buttons is a huge mistake. I don't know who decided this. In the summer (to keep it cool) and in the winter (to keep it warm) passengers should be able to close the doors themselves. I know the doors close automatically after 30 seconds (or something like that) but that is not good enough as passengers should have the option to close the doors when they wish to.

The automated announcements and display screens are alright but it is certainly not as good as the 315s. I'm glad though that they choose Emma Hignett rather then some robotic voice which lots of TOCs seem to be doing (such as the SWT 707s which are going to be using the Acapela Rachael [Text To Speech] system). The 315s would list all the stations that the train is calling at on departure from each and every station but the 345s don't do this. So the information they give to passengers is going downhill (which is typical of TFL seeing that they wont ever publish paper timetables any more).

The lack of plug sockets is another big mistake. Nowadays plug sockets are a big necessity on all trains. I would say plug sockets are more important than WIFI on trains. Especially as these are National Rail trains being used for long distances.

The final (and perhaps the biggest failure) is not building these as 12 coach trains. I know they will eventually be extended to 9 coaches but that still wont be enough. Within a few years of Crossrail opening it will be far too overcrowded. So 12 coach 345s should of been built. Less than 12 coaches wont be enough.

Also i believe they should have been built with four doors on each side (similar to the C stock) to help with overcrowding and boarding and alighting times in Central London. There is plenty of room for a four door layout.

So overall in my opinion the trains are poorly designed and unsuitable for the work they will be used on.

I don't know, I think quite a lot of passengers would not travel from Shenfield all the way to Reading, so many passengers concerns would be to try get on the train. These trains will work well for that.

I think not listing all the stations is better than that repetitive one on the Class 700, which takes a bit of time.

Also, these trains are 11 car ready as well, which is equivalent to a 12 car 700.

 

[GW43125]

This has probably been mentioned already, but on Saturday I saw a rather grubby 345 coupled to a loco in the Crewe area. Anyone know the story behind this one?

 

[absolutelymilk]

I don't know, I think quite a lot of passengers would not travel from Shenfield all the way to Reading, so many passengers concerns would be to try get on the train. These trains will work well for that.

I think not listing all the stations is better than that repetitive one on the Class 700, which takes a bit of time.

Also, these trains are 11 car ready as well, which is equivalent to a 12 car 700.

I think they are 7 cars currently, but will go up to nine once the full line opens and they can use the longer Crossrail platforms at Liverpool Street.

 

[Marklund]

Yes, it is Emma Highnett (the same gal that is used for London Overground). One of TfL pros told me that her voice was used because they are trying to move the Class 345 away from National Rail artefacts and prevent the trains from having any kind of 'National Rail' feel to them, but instead have an 'Île-de-France RER-type feel to them.

Same when the put "National Rail" and "Overground" as separate signs.
Overground is National Rail, and as soon as they remember they are running a railway system, and not building empires, the better.

 

[macaronlover]

The lack of door close buttons is a huge mistake. I don't know who decided this. In the summer (to keep it cool) and in the winter (to keep it warm) passengers should be able to close the doors themselves. I know the doors close automatically after 30 seconds (or something like that) but that is not good enough as passengers should have the option to close the doors when they wish to.

I asked one of the TfL workers about this and they said that it was to prevent accidents being made by passengers attempting to close the doors on others. In addition after a pair of doors has opened, they will close automatically after 2 seconds if the door sensor is not triggered. However when the core section opens, all sets of doors will be opened (by the driver) and (for safety reasons) will be kept open until the driver decides to close the doors. An additional option is available to keep the doors open whenever a passenger presses a button.

 

[387star]

No sockets is surprising wifi?

The 700 pis used to say change at haywards heath for portsmouth bubthat has been dropped I guess because Three Bridges is a more obvious changing point?! Or brighton unless on a sunday so too much info can be a bad thing

They look good... Interesting with two seat designs...

 

[ijmad]

No sockets is surprising wifi?

Didn't look for it but yes they're supposed to have wiki and 4G repeaters, which is supposed to work all the way through the tunnelled sections as well as outside.

So we're in for a lot of 'HELLO? YEAH NO, I'M ON THE ELIZABETH LINE' in the near future...

 

[387star]

I went on the 345 this morning and have to say these are a complete pile of rubbish compared to the 315s in my opinion. I much prefer the 315s. It was certainly nice though to have a ride on them and to see what they were like.

Firstly the air conditioning was alright and seemed to work well. However the air conditioning certainly wasn't as good as some other trains (for example the 700s and some other Siemens Desiro trains have much better cooler air conditioning).

The 315s are much more comfortable and pleasent to travel on. The 315s have a normal seating layout where as the 345s have far too much longitudal seating. The seats on the 315s also feel a bit more comfortable than the 345s. The 345s are totally unsuitable for the type of work they will be used on. They feel like the sort of trains that should be found on short distance metro services (like the Victoria Line) rather than long distance National Rail services from Reading to Shenfield etc. The lack of much luggage space is also a failure considering they will be used to and from Heathrow Airport soon.

The lack of door close buttons is a huge mistake. I don't know who decided this. In the summer (to keep it cool) and in the winter (to keep it warm) passengers should be able to close the doors themselves. I know the doors close automatically after 30 seconds (or something like that) but that is not good enough as passengers should have the option to close the doors when they wish to.

The automated announcements and display screens are alright but it is certainly not as good as the 315s. I'm glad though that they choose Emma Hignett rather then some robotic voice which lots of TOCs seem to be doing (such as the SWT 707s which are going to be using the Acapela Rachael [Text To Speech] system). The 315s would list all the stations that the train is calling at on departure from each and every station but the 345s don't do this. So the information they give to passengers is going downhill (which is typical of TFL seeing that they wont ever publish paper timetables any more).

The lack of plug sockets is another big mistake. Nowadays plug sockets are a big necessity on all trains. I would say plug sockets are more important than WIFI on trains. Especially as these are National Rail trains being used for long distances.

The final (and perhaps the biggest failure) is not building these as 12 coach trains. I know they will eventually be extended to 9 coaches but that still wont be enough. Within a few years of Crossrail opening it will be far too overcrowded. So 12 coach 345s should of been built. Less than 12 coaches wont be enough.

Also i believe they should have been built with four doors on each side (similar to the C stock) to help with overcrowding and boarding and alighting times in Central London. There is plenty of room for a four door layout.

So overall in my opinion the trains are poorly designed and unsuitable for the work they will be used on.

Never been on a 315 but their seating looks awful so struggle to comprehend how proper high backed seating can be more uncomfortable

Shame about luggage space the 700s are excellent in that regard and put the gx 387s to shame

 

[ijmad]

Also, these trains are 11 car ready as well, which is equivalent to a 12 car 700.

I know all the new core stations have been built for 11 cars, but would the Shenfield or Reading branch stations need further platform extensions for this to be realised? I've heard Heathrow's platforms are too short which would be even more problematic given they're underground. SDO maybe?

 

[EssexGonzo]

I went on the 345 this morning and have to say these are a complete pile of rubbish compared to the 315s in my opinion. I much prefer the 315s. It was certainly nice though to have a ride on them and to see what they were like.

Firstly the air conditioning was alright and seemed to work well. However the air conditioning certainly wasn't as good as some other trains (for example the 700s and some other Siemens Desiro trains have much better cooler air conditioning).

The 315s are much more comfortable and pleasent to travel on. The 315s have a normal seating layout where as the 345s have far too much longitudal seating. The seats on the 315s also feel a bit more comfortable than the 345s. The 345s are totally unsuitable for the type of work they will be used on. They feel like the sort of trains that should be found on short distance metro services (like the Victoria Line) rather than long distance National Rail services from Reading to Shenfield etc. The lack of much luggage space is also a failure considering they will be used to and from Heathrow Airport soon.

The lack of door close buttons is a huge mistake. I don't know who decided this. In the summer (to keep it cool) and in the winter (to keep it warm) passengers should be able to close the doors themselves. I know the doors close automatically after 30 seconds (or something like that) but that is not good enough as passengers should have the option to close the doors when they wish to.

The automated announcements and display screens are alright but it is certainly not as good as the 315s. I'm glad though that they choose Emma Hignett rather then some robotic voice which lots of TOCs seem to be doing (such as the SWT 707s which are going to be using the Acapela Rachael [Text To Speech] system). The 315s would list all the stations that the train is calling at on departure from each and every station but the 345s don't do this. So the information they give to passengers is going downhill (which is typical of TFL seeing that they wont ever publish paper timetables any more).

The lack of plug sockets is another big mistake. Nowadays plug sockets are a big necessity on all trains. I would say plug sockets are more important than WIFI on trains. Especially as these are National Rail trains being used for long distances.

The final (and perhaps the biggest failure) is not building these as 12 coach trains. I know they will eventually be extended to 9 coaches but that still wont be enough. Within a few years of Crossrail opening it will be far too overcrowded. So 12 coach 345s should of been built. Less than 12 coaches wont be enough.

Also i believe they should have been built with four doors on each side (similar to the C stock) to help with overcrowding and boarding and alighting times in Central London. There is plenty of room for a four door layout.

So overall in my opinion the trains are poorly designed and unsuitable for the work they will be used on.

Basically, as far as I understand, this is effectively another tube line. Think of it as an extra Central Line. It's not about Shenfield, apart from this being a convenient end point.

I live in Shenfield, and virtually no-one will use it from Shenfield to go any further than, say, Ilford. A journey to anywhere beyond Stratford from Shenfield would be better done by taking a GA fast train and changing to the EL there or at Liverpool Street. And if you get on it at Brentwood and work in the West End you'll be thankful of a seat and not having to change to the Central Line at LST.

Wifi and charging? For the former, not necessary. Most passengers will travel in the tunnels when open, just like the Central Line. And charging? Not practical when you're standing nose to armpit between Harold Hill and Stratford. They will be crowded cattle trucks rather than comfortable cruisers.

They look totally fit for purpose as "new tube trains".

 

[Uzair]

swt class 450 you are far too critical.

 

[EssexGonzo]

I know all the new core stations have been built for 11 cars, but would the Shenfield or Reading branch stations need further platform extensions for this to be realised? I've heard Heathrow's platforms are too short which would be even more problematic given they're underground. SDO maybe?

Shenfield's fine. P5 can take more than a 12 coach 321 right now and P6 is shiny and new!

 

[class387]

I went on the 345 this morning and have to say these are a complete pile of rubbish compared to the 315s in my opinion. I much prefer the 315s. It was certainly nice though to have a ride on them and to see what they were like.

Firstly the air conditioning was alright and seemed to work well. However the air conditioning certainly wasn't as good as some other trains (for example the 700s and some other Siemens Desiro trains have much better cooler air conditioning).

The 315s are much more comfortable and pleasent to travel on. The 315s have a normal seating layout where as the 345s have far too much longitudal seating. The seats on the 315s also feel a bit more comfortable than the 345s. The 345s are totally unsuitable for the type of work they will be used on. They feel like the sort of trains that should be found on short distance metro services (like the Victoria Line) rather than long distance National Rail services from Reading to Shenfield etc. The lack of much luggage space is also a failure considering they will be used to and from Heathrow Airport soon.

The lack of door close buttons is a huge mistake. I don't know who decided this. In the summer (to keep it cool) and in the winter (to keep it warm) passengers should be able to close the doors themselves. I know the doors close automatically after 30 seconds (or something like that) but that is not good enough as passengers should have the option to close the doors when they wish to.

The automated announcements and display screens are alright but it is certainly not as good as the 315s. I'm glad though that they choose Emma Hignett rather then some robotic voice which lots of TOCs seem to be doing (such as the SWT 707s which are going to be using the Acapela Rachael [Text To Speech] system). The 315s would list all the stations that the train is calling at on departure from each and every station but the 345s don't do this. So the information they give to passengers is going downhill (which is typical of TFL seeing that they wont ever publish paper timetables any more).

The lack of plug sockets is another big mistake. Nowadays plug sockets are a big necessity on all trains. I would say plug sockets are more important than WIFI on trains. Especially as these are National Rail trains being used for long distances.

The final (and perhaps the biggest failure) is not building these as 12 coach trains. I know they will eventually be extended to 9 coaches but that still wont be enough. Within a few years of Crossrail opening it will be far too overcrowded. So 12 coach 345s should of been built. Less than 12 coaches wont be enough.

Also i believe they should have been built with four doors on each side (similar to the C stock) to help with overcrowding and boarding and alighting times in Central London. There is plenty of room for a four door layout.

So overall in my opinion the trains are poorly designed and unsuitable for the work they will be used on.

I disagree that the 315s are better. The 345s have better seating for long distance passengers in 2+2 bays with armrests and the longitudinal seating is perfectly suitable if not better than the tight 3+2 benches on the 315 for shorter distances. Longitudinal seating is required, especially when Crossrail opens fully, to compromise between longer distances and short peak flows, where people are currently being being left behind with 315s

The air conditioning on the 345 was certainly much better and cooler (even though I find it unpleasant when air conditioning is too cold) than both the two 700s and the S Stock that I travelled on to get to Liverpool Street and quieter too, which was a problem with the Desiros.

Having 4 doors per carriage would reduce seating capacity further, something which you have complained about. I expect the trains to be lengthened to 11 coaches quite soon after Crossrail services start, though.

 

[ijmad]

Personally I hate 3+2's on anything vaguely busy. The seats, frankly, aren't wide enough for 3 current-era-sized people to sit comfortably, and 3+2s are a nightmare to get in and out of at busy stations where the narrow aisles are full. I'd much rather have 2+2 or 2+1 (where the 1 is longitudinal) and more standing space and room to negotiate to/from the doors!

 

[class387]

Personally I hate 3+2's on anything vaguely busy. The seats, frankly, aren't wide enough for 3 current-era-sized people to sit comfortably, and 3+2s are a nightmare to get in and out of at busy stations where the aisles are full. I'd much rather have 2+2 and more standing space and room to negotiate to/from the doors!

Exactly. Especially since the seats on the 345 are high-backed, reasonably comfortable and the longitudinal seats are also quite spacious.

 

[387star]

Personally I hate 3+2's on anything vaguely busy. The seats, frankly, aren't wide enough for 3 current-era-sized people to sit comfortably, and 3+2s are a nightmare to get in and out of at busy stations where the narrow aisles are full. I'd much rather have 2+2 or 2+1 (where the 1 is longitudinal) and more standing space and room to negotiate to/from the doors!

Yeah I can see the 377 seats in the centre coaches being ripped out in years to come as the make the corridors ridiculously narrow

 

[ijmad]

Yeah I can see the 377 seats in the centre coaches being ripped out in years to come as the make the corridors ridiculously narrow

On more than one occasion I have seen people unable to detrain at Herne Hill or Denmark Hill from a 319 due to the aisle being full of people you literally couldn't navigate around.

The 377s aren't quite as bad as a 3+2 but I guess their seats are wider, as you're right the aisles still seem rather narrow.

 

[goblinuser]

Aside from the information screen design, I find the interior to be very good.
It treats passengers with respect by not being overly loud. It is good to see TfL taking the bold decision to shift away from cheap and tacky children's playground inspired transport design styles. However, the seat pattern is a little sickly and should have been refined a little more.

 

[JW16]

Will a 345 be in service tomorrow (23 June)?

 

[CNBRail]

On the outside, on the door itself - there is the door open button beside what I assume is the sounder, and then a separate circular aperture towards the top. Is that an exterior 'door out of use' indicator or something else?

Yep it's an exterior door not in use indicator (If you mean the one towards the top of the door lead)

 

[ijmad]

Will a 345 be in service tomorrow (23 June)?

These are probably 345s right?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea.../23/0000-2359?stp=S&show=all&order=wtt&toc=XR

 

[47802]

I went on the 345 this morning and have to say these are a complete pile of rubbish compared to the 315s in my opinion. I much prefer the 315s. It was certainly nice though to have a ride on them and to see what they were like.

Firstly the air conditioning was alright and seemed to work well. However the air conditioning certainly wasn't as good as some other trains (for example the 700s and some other Siemens Desiro trains have much better cooler air conditioning).

The 315s are much more comfortable and pleasent to travel on. The 315s have a normal seating layout where as the 345s have far too much longitudal seating. The seats on the 315s also feel a bit more comfortable than the 345s. The 345s are totally unsuitable for the type of work they will be used on. They feel like the sort of trains that should be found on short distance metro services (like the Victoria Line) rather than long distance National Rail services from Reading to Shenfield etc. The lack of much luggage space is also a failure considering they will be used to and from Heathrow Airport soon.

The lack of door close buttons is a huge mistake. I don't know who decided this. In the summer (to keep it cool) and in the winter (to keep it warm) passengers should be able to close the doors themselves. I know the doors close automatically after 30 seconds (or something like that) but that is not good enough as passengers should have the option to close the doors when they wish to.

The automated announcements and display screens are alright but it is certainly not as good as the 315s. I'm glad though that they choose Emma Hignett rather then some robotic voice which lots of TOCs seem to be doing (such as the SWT 707s which are going to be using the Acapela Rachael [Text To Speech] system). The 315s would list all the stations that the train is calling at on departure from each and every station but the 345s don't do this. So the information they give to passengers is going downhill (which is typical of TFL seeing that they wont ever publish paper timetables any more).

The lack of plug sockets is another big mistake. Nowadays plug sockets are a big necessity on all trains. I would say plug sockets are more important than WIFI on trains. Especially as these are National Rail trains being used for long distances.

The final (and perhaps the biggest failure) is not building these as 12 coach trains. I know they will eventually be extended to 9 coaches but that still wont be enough. Within a few years of Crossrail opening it will be far too overcrowded. So 12 coach 345s should of been built. Less than 12 coaches wont be enough.

Also i believe they should have been built with four doors on each side (similar to the C stock) to help with overcrowding and boarding and alighting times in Central London. There is plenty of room for a four door layout.

So overall in my opinion the trains are poorly designed and unsuitable for the work they will be used on.

Rubbish as has already been stated these are essentially 21st century Tube trains and from what I see entirely suited for the purpose. How many passengers are going to travel on these from Reading to Shenfield not that many I expect, as a Northerner maybe you would like pacers put on this route instead of modern Air conditioned trains. Frankly I get a bit fed up of moaning from people in the South, if you want real crap try rail travel in the north.