Class 345 progress

[700007]

What does PVR mean here?

Just as Jonathan H said - sorry if this confused you!

I dont think the 360s are going to crossrail the staff are not even being tuped (Some gwr staff are though!)

I noticed that a lot of TfL Rail staff are around this route, and I asked a few staff about why this was. The general response I got from a lot of staff was apparently TfL Rail actually 'took over' this line some time ago (no specific date available, sorry), they've just not enforced the branding yet. So the line is nearly always fully staffed with MTR drivers based at Ilford, who usually, on a rota comes across to Old Oak Common for a few days and then goes back. It's to allow familiarisation and in-service route training amongst staff members who will be working on the new Crossrail service.

One of many reasons it isn't branded as TfL Rail right now is due to lack of resources available if they were to take over the line now: essentially this being that there isn't enough 345s to take over the service - if it's being put on the tube map and gains a lot more attention than it already does now, passengers won't be happy with a 5-car service every 30/60 minutes as you can probably imagine...

However, TfL are already helping out with works on the line and at stations to ensure a smoother transition from Heathrow Connect to TfL Rail on the Sunday 20th May 2018. New staff are already being recruited to be based out of Old Oak Common depot, including drivers and engineers, and in addition customer service assistants at every station too from first train to last.

First is still obviously involved with the Heathrow Connect service as is BAA, although they're more in charge of operations and making sure the day to day running of the trains goes well. A First MTR collaboration....wonder where we've seen that? (!)

This is what I've been told by numerous people - if anyone would like to verify, please do!

 

[JN114]

First is still obviously involved with the Heathrow Connect service as is BAA, although they're more in charge of operations and making sure the day to day running of the trains goes well. A First MTR collaboration....wonder where we've seen that? (!)

As I’ve said previously - First’s input into Heathrow Connect is very limited - essentially a paperwork exercise and some accountability for performance (for trains that GWR have no influence over on a decision/recovery basis; go figure!).

 

[iphone76]

Just as Jonathan H said - sorry if this confused you!


I noticed that a lot of TfL Rail staff are around this route, and I asked a few staff about why this was. The general response I got from a lot of staff was apparently TfL Rail actually 'took over' this line some time ago (no specific date available, sorry), they've just not enforced the branding yet. So the line is nearly always fully staffed with MTR drivers based at Ilford, who usually, on a rota comes across to Old Oak Common for a few days and then goes back. It's to allow familiarisation and in-service route training amongst staff members who will be working on the new Crossrail service.

One of many reasons it isn't branded as TfL Rail right now is due to lack of resources available if they were to take over the line now: essentially this being that there isn't enough 345s to take over the service - if it's being put on the tube map and gains a lot more attention than it already does now, passengers won't be happy with a 5-car service every 30/60 minutes as you can probably imagine...

However, TfL are already helping out with works on the line and at stations to ensure a smoother transition from Heathrow Connect to TfL Rail on the Sunday 20th May 2018. New staff are already being recruited to be based out of Old Oak Common depot, including drivers and engineers, and in addition customer service assistants at every station too from first train to last.

First is still obviously involved with the Heathrow Connect service as is BAA, although they're more in charge of operations and making sure the day to day running of the trains goes well. A First MTR collaboration....wonder where we've seen that? (!)

This is what I've been told by numerous people - if anyone would like to verify, please do!

I can help with a few bits.

I can't say how many, but some drivers on Heathrow Connect are indeed employed by MTR Crossrail. A handful moved from Ilford and Gidea Park depots at the start of the year to learn the route and traction. They are permanently based in the west and have no link back to the eastern route and they no longer drive the 315s/345s between Liverpool Street and Shenfield.

A lot of the drivers who were recruited for the west and have passed out are currently based at Ilford and Gidea Park depots and are waiting to find out when they are transferring to Old Oak Common. They currently haven't been given a date. There are quite a few who will be going.

11 western stations and associated staff will transfer to MTR on 10th December 17. This is when these stations will receive neutral TfL branding.

 

[hassaanhc]

11 western stations and associated staff will transfer to MTR on 10th December 17. This is when these stations will receive neutral TfL branding.

The paintbrushes have been out at many stations over the last few weeks, the main change being the blue bits (lampposts, doors etc) becoming grey. Looks like people also need to hurry if they want photos of the Punjabi signs at Southall, and I think there was a lot of controversy a few years back over their replacement so I wonder what will happen this time .

Would these 11 stations be: Acton Main Line, Ealing Broadway, West Ealing, Hanwell, Southall, Hayes & Harlington, West Drayton, Iver, Langley, Burnham, Taplow ?

 

[matt_world2004]

Just as Jonathan H said - sorry if this confused you!


I noticed that a lot of TfL Rail staff are around this route, and I asked a few staff about why this was. The general response I got from a lot of staff was apparently TfL Rail actually 'took over' this line some time ago (no specific date available, sorry), they've just not enforced the branding yet. So the line is nearly always fully staffed with MTR drivers based at Ilford, who usually, on a rota comes across to Old Oak Common for a few days and then goes back. It's to allow familiarisation and in-service route training amongst staff members who will be working on the new Crossrail service.

One of many reasons it isn't branded as TfL Rail right now is due to lack of resources available if they were to take over the line now: essentially this being that there isn't enough 345s to take over the service - if it's being put on the tube map and gains a lot more attention than it already does now, passengers won't be happy with a 5-car service every 30/60 minutes as you can probably imagine...

However, TfL are already helping out with works on the line and at stations to ensure a smoother transition from Heathrow Connect to TfL Rail on the Sunday 20th May 2018. New staff are already being recruited to be based out of Old Oak Common depot, including drivers and engineers, and in addition customer service assistants at every station too from first train to last.

First is still obviously involved with the Heathrow Connect service as is BAA, although they're more in charge of operations and making sure the day to day running of the trains goes well. A First MTR collaboration....wonder where we've seen that? (!)

This is what I've been told by numerous people - if anyone would like to verify, please do!

I don't think this is the case, if it was the case TfL ticketing products would be available throughout the Heathrow Connect route. They currently are not. Also there have been one or two occasions since TfL Rail staff have been seen on the connect route where the connect has been run as a Heathrow Express. Which the way the contract has been written would be financially crippling for MTR Crossrail. (Skipping stops incur huge fines)

Also TfL rail staff have been seen on the 387s from Hayes and Harlington which ties into the fact they are shadowing GwR/HC staff for route knowledge

When TfL rail took over the great eastern services from greater Anglia lack of rolling stock didn't stop them. Some TfL rail services ran with greater Anglia branding for over a year. With only a demonstrator train and station being TfL branded for launch day.

TfL have been helping out on the infrastructure improvements since the beginning of Crossrail.

Edit: it may be the case that mtr crossrail have gone to hc with an offer to run their services cheaply as a way of training drivers and getting route knowledge. This would be seperate from the tfl contract however

 

[iphone76]

Would these 11 stations be: Acton Main Line, Ealing Broadway, West Ealing, Hanwell, Southall, Hayes & Harlington, West Drayton, Iver, Langley, Burnham, Taplow ?

Yes. Those are the 11 stations.

 

[iphone76]

When TfL rail took over the great eastern services from greater Anglia lack of rolling stock didn't stop them. Some TfL rail services ran with greater Anglia branding for over a year. With only a demonstrator train and station being TfL branded for launch day.

That’s interesting as I used to pass the eastern stations and trains every day on my way to work and I seem to remember all of the stations (certainly at platform level) being rebranded on day 1. Also a lot of the trains gained the blue doors and skirting before the take over. I remember thinking at the time that TfL did more to introduce a uniformed fleet in a month or so, that ONE, NXEA and GA did in years.

I started working for them towards the end of 2015 and to the best of my knowledge/memory there was no GA branding by then.

 

[samuelmorris]

The new diagrams accommdate the closure of the carriage sidings at Gidea Park and the lack of turning capacity in the middle sidings. Thus quite a few trains run ECS Gidea Park to Shenfield and back before starting back in passenger service. In the early mornings a few trains run empty from Ilford depot to Shenfield sidings then back empty to Gidea Park. A few also travel empty from Shenfield sidings to Gidea Park. This will be the case for a few months now until the sidings reopen.

Thanks, that makes sense.

An interesting note regarding 345s is the first time a lack of overhead luggage racks has presented a problem - had a bag stolen off me last night on a 345 due to it being underneath a transverse seat out of my sight, with nothing stopping longitudinal seat passengers adjacent leaning underneath and taking stuff it does highlight that issue. I'll try and remember to go in a longitudinal seat when I'm carrying stuff next time!

 

[matt_world2004]

That’s interesting as I used to pass the eastern stations and trains every day on my way to work and I seem to remember all of the stations (certainly at platform level) being rebranded on day 1. Also a lot of the trains gained the blue doors and skirting before the take over. I remember thinking at the time that TfL did more to introduce a uniformed fleet in a month or so, that ONE, NXEA and GA did in years.

I started working for them towards the end of 2015 and to the best of my knowledge/memory there was no GA branding by then.

I was working Cheshunt for a while and used to catch the train from seven sisters because I was travelling with a staff pass. It was initially a guessing game as to weather I could get on board the train as they were still running under aga livery

 

[iphone76]

Thanks, that makes sense.

An interesting note regarding 345s is the first time a lack of overhead luggage racks has presented a problem - had a bag stolen off me last night on a 345 due to it being underneath a transverse seat out of my sight, with nothing stopping longitudinal seat passengers adjacent leaning underneath and taking stuff it does highlight that issue. I'll try and remember to go in a longitudinal seat when I'm carrying stuff next time!

I'm sorry to hear about your bag being stolen. I hope they are able to get some footage of the person who took it.

 

[iphone76]

I was working Cheshunt for a while and used to catch the train from seven sisters because I was travelling with a staff pass. It was initially a guessing game as to weather I could get on board the train as they were still running under aga livery

Oh. You mean the London Overground side of the take over? Perhaps they were slower than the MTR Crossrail side of things between Liverpool Street and Shenfield. They worked very quickly to rebrand everything.

 

[Wivenswold]

Thanks, that makes sense.

An interesting note regarding 345s is the first time a lack of overhead luggage racks has presented a problem - had a bag stolen off me last night on a 345 due to it being underneath a transverse seat out of my sight, with nothing stopping longitudinal seat passengers adjacent leaning underneath and taking stuff it does highlight that issue. I'll try and remember to go in a longitudinal seat when I'm carrying stuff next time!

Sorry to hear that Samuel, what a [insert favourite swearword here]. I assume you reported it to the BTP? The 345s are supposed to have CCTV covering every angle.

 

[matt_world2004]

Oh. You mean the London Overground side of the take over? Perhaps they were slower than the MTR Crossrail side of things between Liverpool Street and Shenfield. They worked very quickly to rebrand everything.

My understanding from TfLs yammer is they were both done at the same time. Inhouse hy TfL and not the concessionaire.

 

[samuelmorris]

Unlikely I'm afraid - BTP have said that the items aren't valuable enough to warrant investigating so no action will be taken, though they didn't tell me what the threshold is. Worth bearing in mind for future reference I guess.

 

[vanillasplash]

Hello everyone, long time lurker but first post here. I have a quick question - Will stations in the west (eg. Twyford, Taplow, Slough ect.) get any TFL branding? Would be interesting to see a roundel that far out.

 

[JonathanH]

Hello everyone, long time lurker but first post here. I have a quick question - Will stations in the west (eg. Twyford, Taplow, Slough ect.) get any TFL branding? Would be interesting to see a roundel that far out.

Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough continue to be GWR stations. Reading is a Network Rail Station. Therefore, Taplow is the furthest west that the TfL branding should appear.

From the Great Western 2015 Franchise Agreement:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...a/file/646260/red-fgw-franchise-agreement.pdf

"“Crossrail Stations” means the following stations which are intended to transfer to the Crossrail Operator: (a) Acton Main Line; (b) Burnham; (c) Ealing Broadway; (d) Hanwell; (e) Hayes and Harlington; (f) Iver; (g) Langley; (h) Southall; (i) Taplow; (j) West Drayton; and (k) West Ealing;"

The transfer of these stations should occur in December 2017 - "The Franchisee: (a) shall complete the Crossrail Transfer Arrangements on the Passenger Change Date in December 2017 (or such other date as the Secretary of State shall specify) including by entering into the Crossrail Business Transfer Agreement;"

"In connection with the installation and maintenance of certain equipment at Slough, Maidenhead, Twyford and Reading stations for the purposes of the operation of the Crossrail Services (including in relation to driver controlled operation) the Franchisee shall (in respect of Reading, to the extent it is reasonably able, recognising that the Franchisee is not the operator of Reading Station) grant reasonable access to such stations to TfL, Rail for London or the Crossrail Operator and co-operate in relation to such installation and maintenance."

 

[matt_world2004]

Out of a curiosity are the stations going to be subject to tfl bylaws even though no trains call there yet,

 

[MatthewRead]

Any 345's out tomorrow?

 

[iphone76]

Any 345's out tomorrow?

Yes. There is at least one, possibly two out tomorrow. 06.02 Liv st to Chadwell Heath, 06.47 Chadwell Heath to Liv st. 07.32 Liv St to Chadwell Heath and 08.17 Chadwell Heath to Liv St. And you should be able to track that one to get later times.

 

[gwr4090]

37601 + Class 345 Derby to Hayes & Harlington Fri 8 Dec apparently/
Now changed to Derby-Old Dalby-Wembley-Hayes

 

[palmersears]

Just passed Wembley yard and saw three units sat there. Any idea which ones they are?

 

[Crossforth]

I spotted a 345 yesterday at Crewe LNWR. Anyone able to identify it?

 

[Wivenswold]

Tragically I'm keeping a monthly spreadsheet of all Anglia allocations during this time of change so that there's a record in case I write a book about it (I'm recently partially disabled, I've done my partying, that's my excuse).

I've got question marks in the allocation boxes next to 345002, 014 and 016 at the moment. I'm not saying it's definitely them, but it's possible.

I'd also appreciate any information on whether 345003 & 004 have left the factory yet, 2 of the first four will be 7 car, 001 & 002 are in that configuration but will also need to be refitted after being testbed units. So it will be interesting to see what configuration the other two are in.

 

[samuelmorris]

I could have sworn I saw 002 at Ilford the other day. It was at Ilford at the beginning of the year at one stage wasn't it?

 

[Wivenswold]

Yes, there's a great night-time photo of it covered in frost at Ilford.

It could we be back at Ilford now to be honest. I can't get out much so I use everyone else's observations. Typing a unit number into Flickr or Twitter usually.

 

[samuelmorris]

The trouble is, I find it difficult to read the numbers off the side of 345s, if I'm passing Ilford depot at normal speed, even on the TfL side, it's really tricky to be sure you saw the number you think you did. Really the only chance I have is seeing them at a station.

 

[387165]

Hello everyone, long time lurker but first post here. I have a quick question - Will stations in the west (eg. Twyford, Taplow, Slough ect.) get any TFL branding? Would be interesting to see a roundel that far out.

Taplow has TFL branding now.

 

[vanillasplash]

Taplow has TFL branding now.

Nice, I live very close so I'll hopefully snap a picture of it this weekend.

 

[matt_world2004]

Nice, I live very close so I'll hopefully snap a picture of it this weekend.

There is nothing obviously tfl yet. There is no roundels just new johnston signs and london underground notice boards if it is the same as hayes.

 

[lordbusiness]

Tragically I'm keeping a monthly spreadsheet of all Anglia allocations during this time of change so that there's a record in case I write a book about it (I'm recently partially disabled, I've done my partying, that's my excuse).

I've got question marks in the allocation boxes next to 345002, 014 and 016 at the moment. I'm not saying it's definitely them, but it's possible.

I'd also appreciate any information on whether 345003 & 004 have left the factory yet, 2 of the first four will be 7 car, 001 & 002 are in that configuration but will also need to be refitted after being testbed units. So it will be interesting to see what configuration the other two are in.

345016 was certainly out and about on the 14th. Saw it approaching SNF about 1000 and later at LST.