Class 365 scrap movements + preservation discussion

[bramling]

Back on 750V and on the East Coastway ?

I don’t get why GTR wouldn’t want to put the 387s on the Coastway and bin off the 313s (whose fleet size happens to be almost exactly the same as the 365s). There are, however, rumours that the 377/5s may be part of a 313 replacement plan, and of course at some point the 379s will be available.

Without delving too much into speculation, it’s highly unfortunate the three village stations on the Cambridge line didn’t get full 8-car platforms. With Cambridge to Maidstone now in the unlikely box, it would have been viable to use the stored 365s on this route (16 diagrams required out of 21 fits nearly perfectly), and use the displaced 700/0 on some GTR Southern metro routes. That on top of the existing 19 GTR 365s would have kept the fleet fully employed to retirement.

I do have my suspicions there’s a political angle to ditching the 365s. Government doesn’t want the hassle of having them on the books (especially the stored ones), and an opportunity for GTR to curry favour by doing a quick and dirty reshuffle to save a small number of pounds. It doesn’t represent that good a deal for the taxpayer when the fleet has had quite a bit of money invested in recent years on a mid-life refurbishment, PRM compliance, wi-fi, etc. It certainly won’t amount to a good deal for GN outer users who now have just three peak extra services in each peak, and no evening extras, which is quite a reduction on May 20. The 387s offer a reduced seating capacity, which again will be a problem if numbers do return - the 365s were perfect peak busters, as GTR’s own COO acknowledges.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Here's 502 in a different era....

 

[Hadders]

Here's 502 in a different era....

Before the facelift

 

[bramling]

Before the facelift

It is rather unfortunate that a lot of the changes made to the 365s over the years tended to spoil them, though no doubt the cab air conditioning was appreciated by drivers.

They definitely looked better with their original front, and the original interior was miles better than what they have now. The colour scheme in particular was extremely restful, and the abundance of carpet deadened sound.

I still think (and hope) they will make a return.

One of the best trains ever built for sure, not least because they managed to achieve a very successful compromise between metro / inner suburban / outer suburban / express work. Few designs have ever managed to do that so well. Ironically I'm not sure the 365 was ever designed to do that, it just came naturally. Meanwhile not one single seat in standard class has a poor window view, though ironically this doesn't quite apply to first - not that the Queen seemed bothered!

 

[Radley]

I've never actually taken the time to realise that until now, but no matter where you sit, you get a really good window view! It's those little things that make the Class 365s stand out

 

[bramling]

I've never actually taken the time to realise that until now, but no matter where you sit, you get a really good window view! It's those little things that make the Class 365s stand out

The Network SouthEast influence no doubt, and that some thought was put into the seating layout (which again was slightly interfered with when the layout was changed, yet the design still was able to absorb that without messing things up too badly).

 

[yololiverb1]

Can anyone tell me please what the other 2 365s are that are at Hornsey with 365502/504?

Many thanks

Oliver

 

[Radley]

Considering 365520 and 365522 were on ECS to Peterborough Nene Sidings this morning, I want to assume one of them is 365534.

I could be wrong on this, however.

 

[brad465]

Here's 502 in a different era....

There does seem to be very little in the way of video footage of them operating in the days with the old front, both at Connex and NSE/WAGN that's publicly available. I can recall one experience riding on them when they did CHX-Ramsgate summer specials via the North Kent line as a child, and some other sights in passing, but otherwise my age at the time (born in 1995), video sharing technology being limited and no feature in a Driver's eye view video probably all don't help.

 

[bramling]

There does seem to be very little in the way of video footage of them operating in the days with the old front, both at Connex and NSE/WAGN that's publicly available. I can recall one experience riding on them when they did CHX-Ramsgate summer specials via the North Kent line as a child, and some other sights in passing, but otherwise my age at the time (born in 1995), video sharing technology being limited and no feature in a Driver's eye view video probably all don't help.

Yes the old front does seem to have evaded being pictured, though they did only work like this for a few years. Likewise the original destination indicators - I think the Connex units had theirs replaced at the same time as the rest of the Networkers, they retained these when they came over to WAGN, and the WAGN units got the same after a short while.

I guess at the time they just weren’t interesting enough, though for some reason I always had a soft-spot for these trains from the moment they appeared. They were very well liked by users (and I don’t mean enthusiasts) right from the get-go.

I do remember a complaint in a magazine about skimpy seat cushions though. I suspect that was a Southern-region user used to Mk1s. If that complainant found the 365 seats hard, one wonders what they would make of today’s new trains!

Somewhere I have a pile of leaflets which WAGN put out on stations “introducing the new 365 train”. Will have to some some clearing out and see if I can dig them out.

Hopefully the 365s won’t be got rid of until the Covid dust has settled a bit. With the bloodbath of Mk3 EMU fleets there isn’t quite as much surplus AC stock as there was.

 

[Chorley Cake]

Does anybody have a list of those units stored at Crewe please ?

 

[JonathanH]

Does anybody have a list of those units stored at Crewe please ?

The odd numbered ones should be at Crewe and the even numbered ones not at Crewe.

 

[Buffer_mutt]

Does anybody have a list of those units stored at Crewe please ?

Crewe: 511, 539
Ely (for anyone wanting to know): 512, 528, 530, 538

 

[365 Networker]

Yes the old front does seem to have evaded being pictured, though they did only work like this for a few years. Likewise the original destination indicators - I think the Connex units had theirs replaced at the same time as the rest of the Networkers, they retained these when they came over to WAGN, and the WAGN units got the same after a short while.

I guess at the time they just weren’t interesting enough, though for some reason I always had a soft-spot for these trains from the moment they appeared. They were very well liked by users (and I don’t mean enthusiasts) right from the get-go.

I do remember a complaint in a magazine about skimpy seat cushions though. I suspect that was a Southern-region user used to Mk1s. If that complainant found the 365 seats hard, one wonders what they would make of today’s new trains!

Somewhere I have a pile of leaflets which WAGN put out on stations “introducing the new 365 train”. Will have to some some clearing out and see if I can dig them out.

Hopefully the 365s won’t be got rid of until the Covid dust has settled a bit. With the bloodbath of Mk3 EMU fleets there isn’t quite as much surplus AC stock as there was.

There are actually a few DVDs available which show the 365s with their original fronts and also when they were with Connex.
Available from Videoscene:-

The Peterborough - Kings Lynn (including Kings Cross) Class 313 - 365 EMU (1988 - 2014)

Features EMUs from all stations from Peterborough to Kings Lynn via Hitchin. Also Kings Cross station. Peterborough and Cambridge stations and Hitchin flyover are visited before and after expansion.Produced by - Anbrico FelixjazRunning time - 69 MinutesDVD only

www.videoscene.co.uk

The Sliding Door DC EMU South Eastern Class 319 - 700 (1986 - 2019) 4 Disc Set

This four-disc set features the following four titles filmed on location between 1984 and 2019:The Sliding Door DC EMU Cannon St - Gravesend Class 375 - 700 (1986 - 2019) (AV465) 70 minutes.**PLEASE NOTE THIS IS A REPLACEMENT FOR THE PREVIOUS TITLE (AV465) 'THE NORTH KENT CLASS 465/466 EMU (1997...

www.videoscene.co.uk

I own them myself and can thoroughly recommend them.
I would very much like to see that leaflet if you can find it!

 

[JonathanH]

Crewe: 511, 539
Ely (for anyone wanting to know): 512, 528, 530, 538

Plus 501, 503, 505, 507, 509, 513, 515, 517, 519, 521, 523, 527, 529, 531, 533, 535, 537, 541 stored at Crewe as well? Did 525 ever go back to Crewe from Longsight?

 

[bramling]

There are actually a few DVDs available which show the 365s with their original fronts and also when they were with Connex.
Available from Videoscene:-

The Peterborough - Kings Lynn (including Kings Cross) Class 313 - 365 EMU (1988 - 2014)

Features EMUs from all stations from Peterborough to Kings Lynn via Hitchin. Also Kings Cross station. Peterborough and Cambridge stations and Hitchin flyover are visited before and after expansion.Produced by - Anbrico FelixjazRunning time - 69 MinutesDVD only

www.videoscene.co.uk

The Sliding Door DC EMU South Eastern Class 319 - 700 (1986 - 2019) 4 Disc Set

This four-disc set features the following four titles filmed on location between 1984 and 2019:The Sliding Door DC EMU Cannon St - Gravesend Class 375 - 700 (1986 - 2019) (AV465) 70 minutes.**PLEASE NOTE THIS IS A REPLACEMENT FOR THE PREVIOUS TITLE (AV465) 'THE NORTH KENT CLASS 465/466 EMU (1997...

www.videoscene.co.uk

I own them myself and can thoroughly recommend them.
I would very much like to see that leaflet if you can find it!

I know it's something I definitely won't have thrown away, but equally I did have a look for it when this subject came up before without success. It's here somewhere for sure though. I'll certainly scan and post it if/when it materialises.

 

[Class315]

Can anyone tell me please what the other 2 365s are that are at Hornsey with 365502/504?

Many thanks

Oliver

365510 & 534 are the other 365’s at Hornsey Depot.

 

[Hadders]

Yes the old front does seem to have evaded being pictured, though they did only work like this for a few years. Likewise the original destination indicators - I think the Connex units had theirs replaced at the same time as the rest of the Networkers, they retained these when they came over to WAGN, and the WAGN units got the same after a short while.

I guess at the time they just weren’t interesting enough, though for some reason I always had a soft-spot for these trains from the moment they appeared. They were very well liked by users (and I don’t mean enthusiasts) right from the get-go.

I do remember a complaint in a magazine about skimpy seat cushions though. I suspect that was a Southern-region user used to Mk1s. If that complainant found the 365 seats hard, one wonders what they would make of today’s new trains!

Somewhere I have a pile of leaflets which WAGN put out on stations “introducing the new 365 train”. Will have to some some clearing out and see if I can dig them out.

Hopefully the 365s won’t be got rid of until the Covid dust has settled a bit. With the bloodbath of Mk3 EMU fleets there isn’t quite as much surplus AC stock as there was.

The original PIS also lasted for 20-odd years. Quite remarkable really. The announcements were short, concise and informative, just what's needed. Some of the 'extra' announcements were a bit patronising like the one advising passengers how to operate the doors, advising that there is a payphone on the train available for public use etc.

 

[yololiverb1]

365510 & 534 are the other 365’s at Hornsey Depot.

Many thanks for that

 

[brad465]

Yes the old front does seem to have evaded being pictured, though they did only work like this for a few years. Likewise the original destination indicators - I think the Connex units had theirs replaced at the same time as the rest of the Networkers, they retained these when they came over to WAGN, and the WAGN units got the same after a short while.

I guess at the time they just weren’t interesting enough, though for some reason I always had a soft-spot for these trains from the moment they appeared. They were very well liked by users (and I don’t mean enthusiasts) right from the get-go.

I do remember a complaint in a magazine about skimpy seat cushions though. I suspect that was a Southern-region user used to Mk1s. If that complainant found the 365 seats hard, one wonders what they would make of today’s new trains!

Somewhere I have a pile of leaflets which WAGN put out on stations “introducing the new 365 train”. Will have to some some clearing out and see if I can dig them out.

Hopefully the 365s won’t be got rid of until the Covid dust has settled a bit. With the bloodbath of Mk3 EMU fleets there isn’t quite as much surplus AC stock as there was.

There are actually a few DVDs available which show the 365s with their original fronts and also when they were with Connex.
Available from Videoscene:-

The Peterborough - Kings Lynn (including Kings Cross) Class 313 - 365 EMU (1988 - 2014)

Features EMUs from all stations from Peterborough to Kings Lynn via Hitchin. Also Kings Cross station. Peterborough and Cambridge stations and Hitchin flyover are visited before and after expansion.Produced by - Anbrico FelixjazRunning time - 69 MinutesDVD only

www.videoscene.co.uk

The Sliding Door DC EMU South Eastern Class 319 - 700 (1986 - 2019) 4 Disc Set

This four-disc set features the following four titles filmed on location between 1984 and 2019:The Sliding Door DC EMU Cannon St - Gravesend Class 375 - 700 (1986 - 2019) (AV465) 70 minutes.**PLEASE NOTE THIS IS A REPLACEMENT FOR THE PREVIOUS TITLE (AV465) 'THE NORTH KENT CLASS 465/466 EMU (1997...

www.videoscene.co.uk

I own them myself and can thoroughly recommend them.
I would very much like to see that leaflet if you can find it!

While this virtual reality, Armstrong Powerhouse have managed to do a Class 365 Enhancement pack for DTG's Train Simulator 20xx that provides every depiction of them, in terms of different cab fronts and all liveries they've ever had, as well as relatively accurate traction motors (certainly more so than the original in the game), and both the third rail and OHLE options exist:

(There's an equivalent enhancement pack for 465s/466s that even includes the original motors on the BREL types)

 

[57Tonic]

Scrap move Monday to Booths from Hornsey, is anything there other than 365s,

 

[3973EXL]

Scrap move Monday to Booths from Hornsey, is anything there other than 365s,

ROG Mon - Fri Q Path

Realtime Trains - FRGT 1924 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Masboro Booths P S

 

[eastwestdivide]

Scrap move Monday to Booths from Hornsey, is anything there other than 365s,

That's been in the timetable for months, and practically never runs.

 

[swt_passenger]

That's been in the timetable for months, and practically never runs.

It‘s possible they were they put in for 313s, but hardly ever got used in the end?

 

[bramling]

It‘s possible they were they put in for 313s, but hardly ever got used in the end?

That’s exactly right.

 

[57Tonic]

My mistake when I saw the Q start date from 17/5/21 and the end date 10/12/21 and a loco from Leicester LIP to booths 16.54 Trailing load 715 tonnes, and with an Nene CHS ECS to Hornsey with the sane dates the brain went into overdrive

 

[jon0844]

The original PIS also lasted for 20-odd years. Quite remarkable really. The announcements were short, concise and informative, just what's needed. Some of the 'extra' announcements were a bit patronising like the one advising passengers how to operate the doors, advising that there is a payphone on the train available for public use etc.

There was one driver that liked to use all of the different messages, which included the use of luggage, moving down the train (I think there was one for this), how to use the doors and even explaining the hustle alarm.

 

[Galvanize]

There was one driver that liked to use all of the different messages, which included the use of luggage, moving down the train (I think there was one for this), how to use the doors and even explaining the hustle alarm.

I know of the bloke...now retired. He’d play them all at random intervals in the journey!

Most Drivers on the old PIS would use 03 “This train terminates here” and 09 “Please ensure you take all your belongings” in quick succession instead of making a manual Termination announcement, especially if approaching buffer stops. Or in the old days of 365s doing Cambridge Cruisers...
”This train is non stop to Kings Cross.”

The old PIS system worked on Floppy Discs, and instead of GPS or track based transponders or whatever they are called, it used basic wheel rotation. In some cases if the service towards London didn’t have a suitable PIS code, the Driver could simply type a 3 digit code that put up on the displays
“This train is for London Kings Cross.”

From 2017 it was replaced with a new digital system, although 365533 was the last one to have the old PIS right up until it was stood down in early 2018.

 

[fenman35]

So how or why did the system state we were approaching Downham Market when looking out the window all to be seen was the Emiraties stadium?

 

[365 Networker]

I know of the bloke...now retired. He’d play them all at random intervals in the journey!

Most Drivers on the old PIS would use 03 “This train terminates here” and 09 “Please ensure you take all your belongings” in quick succession instead of making a manual Termination announcement, especially if approaching buffer stops. Or in the old days of 365s doing Cambridge Cruisers...
”This train is non stop to Kings Cross.”

The old PIS system worked on Floppy Discs, and instead of GPS or track based transponders or whatever they are called, it used basic wheel rotation. In some cases if the service towards London didn’t have a suitable PIS code, the Driver could simply type a 3 digit code that put up on the displays
“This train is for London Kings Cross.”

From 2017 it was replaced with a new digital system, although 365533 was the last one to have the old PIS right up until it was stood down in early 2018.

Do you still have a list of all the individual announcements? There are some available from this webpage - Class 365 Announcement Pack v1.0 – Alan Thomson Simulation
You do need an account to download them though.