Class 365 withdrawal suggestions

[Cam317]

I understand they are still operational on Great Northern routes, at peak time, between Baldock and Kings Cross as well as Peterborough and Kings cross. Does anyone have any information on when we can expect them to be withdrawn completely? And which units are still operational?

 

[221101 Voyager]

Off Wikipedia​

​

Fleet details​

Class	Operator	No.	Unit nos.
Class 365	Great Northern	21​	365502, 365504, 365506, 365508, 365510–365512, 365514, 365516, 365518, 365520, 365522, 365524, 365528, 365530, 365532, 365534, 365536, 365538–365540
	Off Lease​	19	365501, 365503, 365505, 365507, 365509, 365513, 365515, 365517, 365519, 365521, 365523, 365525, 365527, 365529, 365531, 365533, 365535, 365537, 365541
	Scrapped​	1	365526

I don't think they'll be replaced any time soon as what would they replace them with?

 

[Economist]

Personally, I'm surprised that they haven't re-attached shoegear and sent them to their old stomping ground south of the river. I'd think they'd be rather handy on the Maidstone East and Tunbridge Wells runs.

 

[365 Networker]

Personally, I'm surprised that they haven't re-attached shoegear and sent them to their old stomping ground south of the river. I'd think they'd be rather handy on the Maidstone East and Tunbridge Wells runs.

I believe this hasn't been done as the shoe gear was lost many years ago, and issues with some of the third rail equipment where found. Its a shame though as it would be nice to see them back with South Eastern.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Personally, I'm surprised that they haven't re-attached shoegear and sent them to their old stomping ground south of the river. I'd think they'd be rather handy on the Maidstone East and Tunbridge Wells runs.

I believe this hasn't been done as the shoe gear was lost many years ago, and issues with some of the third rail equipment where found. Its a shame though as it would be nice to see them back with South Eastern.

With regards to a future use I saw this a while back this year.

Varamis plans electric freight to carry light goods

Electric-powered high speed logistics services to be launched by Varamis Rail this year

www.railmagazine.com

Apart from this I've heard of no alternative uses for them sadly.

 

[365 Networker]

With regards to a future use I saw this a while back this year.

Varamis plans electric freight to carry light goods

Electric-powered high speed logistics services to be launched by Varamis Rail this year

www.railmagazine.com

Apart from this I've heard of no alternative uses for them sadly.

The last update I can find on Varamis is from August, so I don't know if that is still happening. I can think of one other alternative use though - East-West rail. They would need to decide to electrify the route though as the current plans are to use DMUs.

 

[221101 Voyager]

The last update I can find on Varamis is from August, so I don't know if that is still happening. I can think of one other alternative use though - East-West rail. They would need to decide to electrify the route though as the current plans are to use DMUs.

Funny you say that, as I was thinking the exact same thing!

I would love to see the 365s on EWR.

Only issue is 365's dont have air con, although I think they may already have ETCS or there was at least talk of them having it done?

 

[Hadders]

Personally, I'm surprised that they haven't re-attached shoegear and sent them to their old stomping ground south of the river. I'd think they'd be rather handy on the Maidstone East and Tunbridge Wells runs.

This crops up every so often on the forum. We had a large thread on it last year, iirc.

It's not feasible for the 365s to operate on 3rd rail as the wiring looms were lost many years ago. I think it was the wiring looms but it was most definitely a critical piece of bespoke kit that is no longer available. @bramling might remember more.

As for the withdrawal of 365s I do hope not - they're still the best trains on GN outer suburban.

 

[365 Networker]

I think they may already have ETCS or there was at least talk of them having it done?

There was an article in RAIL 5 years ago about this:-

Atlas 200 ETCS to be fitted into GTR Class 365

Signalling Solutions Ltd and Eversholt Rail Group sign dealt to design and install Alstom’s Atlas 200 European Train Control System (ETCS) on a Class 365.

www.railmagazine.com

Again though, nothing appears to have happend with this, unless any drivers on GN know otherwise?

As for the withdrawal of 365s I do hope not - they're still the best trains on GN outer suburban.

Definitely the best on GN, just a shame there hardly used anymore.

 

[221101 Voyager]

There was an article in RAIL 5 years ago about this:-

Atlas 200 ETCS to be fitted into GTR Class 365

Signalling Solutions Ltd and Eversholt Rail Group sign dealt to design and install Alstom’s Atlas 200 European Train Control System (ETCS) on a Class 365.

www.railmagazine.com

Again though, nothing appears to have happend with this, unless any drivers on GN know otherwise?


Definitely the best on GN, just a shame there hardly used anymore.

Oh, can't be that hard to fit ETCS if they used them on EWR?

It is a shame they aren't all with GN still as they've replaced them with ironing board stock in the form of 387s and 700s.

 

[365 Networker]

Oh, can't be that hard to fit ETCS if they used them on EWR?

They managed to fit it to 158s, so I cant see a 365 being anymore difficult.

It is a shame they aren't all with GN still as they've replaced them with ironing board stock in the form of 387s and 700s.

Perhaps they will improve the seating in the refurbishment they are getting. I suspect that's unlikely though.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Off Wikipedia​

​

Fleet details​

Class	Operator	No.	Unit nos.
Class 365	Great Northern	21​	365502, 365504, 365506, 365508, 365510–365512, 365514, 365516, 365518, 365520, 365522, 365524, 365528, 365530, 365532, 365534, 365536, 365538–365540
	Off Lease​	19	365501, 365503, 365505, 365507, 365509, 365513, 365515, 365517, 365519, 365521, 365523, 365525, 365527, 365529, 365531, 365533, 365535, 365537, 365541
	Scrapped​	1	365526

I don't think they'll be replaced any time soon as what would they replace them with?

The 700s no longer needed for mothballed St Pancras to Maidstone?

 

[221101 Voyager]

They managed to fit it to 158s, so I cant see a 365 being anymore difficult.


Perhaps they will improve the seating in the refurbishment they are getting. I suspect that's unlikely though.

Fair enough, fingers crossed for 365s on the EWR!

I've heard the electrostar refurb does not include seating changes.

The 700s no longer needed for mothballed St Pancras to Maidstone?

Hmm... I 've never heard of TL to Maidstone, interesting. Anyway, back to the 365.

 

[bramling]

I understand they are still operational on Great Northern routes, at peak time, between Baldock and Kings Cross as well as Peterborough and Kings cross. Does anyone have any information on when we can expect them to be withdrawn completely? And which units are still operational?

There are no plans for them to be withdrawn, and they will see out the GTR franchise. What happens beyond that depends on what the next franchise chooses to do.

They’re currently doing less due to Covid, and this continues in December with most units doing just one trip each peak. Some of the Baldock work is also looking to change to 387s, though this is possibly temporary as the next timetable is written around the KX works (we will also be seeing 700/0s to Kings Lynn by the looks of it).

I seem to remember someone posted here that GTR is actually to lease an extra 365 in the future, but not sure when or if this is still happening.

 

[Roast Veg]

I don't think they'll be replaced any time soon as what would they replace them with?

Class 379s would be ideal, especially if they are MU compatible with the 387s. Any extra stock with GN can then go south of the river.

 

[zn1]

the drawings and Manuals for 365 will not have been binned, im fairly sure that Hornsey Tech office will have a complete set of 365 folders and complete set of drawings, I find it hard to believe that any paperwork for squadrons from 319-onwards will have been destroyed or "lost". tech offices such as Hornseys, Ilfords, Wolvertons, will have sets for everything in their librarys ..just in case...

 

[supervc-10]

The plans might be there, but tooling/jigs probably aren't.

It is a shame they can't be configured back to dual voltage easily though.

 

[Hadders]

This post explains why the 365s won’t be going south

Government takes ownership of Class 365 fleet

No this was a fairly unique contract just pre-privatisation with terms that doesn't apply to most other stock contracts (i.e. that purchased by ROSCOs for TOCs). The only other contracts with similar porvisions are IET 800/801, Thameslink 700, all new build London Overground EMUs (378s/710s) and...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Roast Veg]

Class 379s would be ideal, especially if they are MU compatible with the 387s. Any extra stock with GN can then go south of the river.

I mean 387s here by the way, fully aware that 365s wouldn't be able to go south.

 

[365 Networker]

Varamis Rail have updated the banner on their twitter page to a picture of a 365, so that could suggest that they are going to be using them.
Here's a link:-
Varamis Rail (@RailVaramis) / Twitter

 

[Energy]

Varamis Rail have updated the banner on their twitter page to a picture of a 365, so that could suggest that they are going to be using them.
Here's a link:-
Varamis Rail (@RailVaramis) / Twitter

Still a lot more work left for them, still need to get their train operating licence, lease the 365s and get something to carry in them.

 

[365 Networker]

lease the 365s

Hopefully that shouldn't be too dificult, as I suspect the government won't want them sitting around doing nothing.

 

[adrock1976]

Being as the 442s have been confirmed going for scrap, will loco hauled 365s become the forum favourite?

 

[brad465]

Still a lot more work left for them, still need to get their train operating licence, lease the 365s and get something to carry in them.

Hopefully that shouldn't be too dificult, as I suspect the government won't want them sitting around doing nothing.

Now that all 40 are about to be available, a future operator like Varamis rail has more stock available to improve potential for their purpose, where only 19 originally being available may have been insufficient.

 

[SteveU821]

Heard a rumour, it may be just a rumour, - 365's to Northern Rail. No other details yet.

 

[JonathanH]

Heard a rumour, it may be just a rumour, - 365's to Northern Rail. No other details yet.

It certainly sounds like an unsubstantiated rumour, given no announcement to that fact and the units listed on Eversholt's 'disposal list'.

If there was something lined up for them, they probably wouldn't be advertised on the disposal list.

 

[Energy]

Heard a rumour, it may be just a rumour, - 365's to Northern Rail. No other details yet.

Sounds unlikely. Why would Northern go for 365s over the 323s they aren't already taking on.

 

[SteveU821]

That was what I was wondering. It doesn't make sense I know.

 

[43096]

Sounds unlikely. Why would Northern go for 365s over the 323s they aren't already taking on.

Because of the ongoing yaw damper attachment issue with the CAF junk?

 

[Aictos]

Because of the ongoing yaw damper attachment issue with the CAF junk?

Only thing is would Northern see it viable to hire in the Class 365s especially when you've got training to consider as well as infrastructure to consider etc especially if only a short term fix?