Class 365s to Scotrail

[mcmad]

I take it they have already been route cleared for where they are most likely to be utilised?

Nope, part of the evaluation is gauge clearance along with minor mods to make them higher and narrower to simplify gauging.

 

[Highlandspring]

Indeed there has and no doubt Alastair Dalton at the Scotsman will print this and claim an "exclusive!" I'd be very careful about revealing the details of the memo.

I’m aware of who watches this forum. That’s why I didn’t expand on the single sentence I wrote.

 

[Goldfish62]

It was hardly a report - it was posted with no source to back it up whatsoever.

Apart from the staff notice about it

 

[170401]

Can confirm the first set is expected imminently. I'd also expect a press release in the not too distant future.

Also confirmed that they will be for use mostly in 8 car formation on the E&G via Falkirk High.

 

[swt_passenger]

Nope, part of the evaluation is gauge clearance along with minor mods to make them higher and narrower to simplify gauging.

Hopefully ‘higher’ would be as straightforward as the GWR 165/166 ride height mods, a few shims somewhere. The only obvious way of making them narrower would presumably be to adjust the step boards?

 

[mde]

Can confirm the first set is expected imminently. I'd also expect a press release in the not too distant future.

Also confirmed that they will be for use mostly in 8 car formation on the E&G via Falkirk High.

Excellent news! And, echoing another poster above, hopefully they do get the PR out before certain less salubrious red top tabloids bang the unit number into Google and discover its origins…

The ‘happy train’ even if temporary will provide a boost over some of the alternative options that would be available and at least should provide comparable comfort to the 170s.

 

[hexagon789]

Can confirm the first set is expected imminently. I'd also expect a press release in the not too distant future.

Also confirmed that they will be for use mostly in 8 car formation on the E&G via Falkirk High.

Very glad to hear it, it makes the most sense out of the available options.

 

[mde]

There's nothing nasty about a 314 - I'd prefer them to a 318 or 320 any day.

I’ve said it before, fit a CET loo and new seats and the average punter would probably not realise the age of the units - much like a 156 they do their job well and just keep on working.

The nostalgic part of me will miss the 314s.

 

[Southsider]

Can confirm the first set is expected imminently. I'd also expect a press release in the not too distant future.

Also confirmed that they will be for use mostly in 8 car formation on the E&G via Falkirk High.

Excellent news and eminently sensible. In one way I’m disappointed though as it possibly means an end to the imaginative and complex ways that people have come up with to upset every diagram in Scotland and beyond to accommodate these trains everywhere but where they are needed.
Now, can ScotRail beat December?

 

[hexagon789]

Now, can ScotRail beat December?

If they can get the units up here and ready for traffic as well as crew training done in a timely fashion, I don't see why not.

 

[Chrism20]

Excellent news! And, echoing another poster above, hopefully they do get the PR out before certain less salubrious red top tabloids bang the unit number into Google and discover its origins…

I’d imagine there will be no PR about them at all until it’s here and they have ran it back and forth several times to make sure it’s capable of running on the route without any issues.

Announcing its on its way and then an issue crops would send transport correspondent of the year Al Dalton into a meltdown.

 

[Lukespenceruk1]

Hello,

As you know, we have been working flat out to secure electric trains to boost capacity for our customers this summer. I wanted to provide you with an update on this.

Over the coming days a class 365 electric train may arrive in Springburn for testing, ahead of a potential entry into service later in the summer.

No formal agreement has been reached, and we are working closely with the trade unions on this, but we are confident that these trains can make a big difference to our customers as we prepare for the deliver of the brand new Hitachi class 385 trains

The class 365 electric trains would boost capacity on the Edinburgh - Glasgow via Falkirk High route, and would mean more seats for our customers during peak times than there were in December.

The class 365 electric trains would:

• Be based at Eastfield and Millerhill depots;
• Run, in the main, as 8-cars;
• Be maintained at Shields depot;
• Be branded with "ScotRail" logos;
• Have cycle and wheelchair spaces;

We are developing training packages to support any introduction of these trains, and these will be consulted with our people and trade union representatives. Prior to operating the trains for passengers, modifications would be carried out on the trains to ensure compatibility with infrastructure in Scotland.

The extra capacity would also mean we are better placed to provide a great service to our customers during major events this summer, like The Open and the Edinburgh Festivals. The class 365 trains would provide a temporary solution until we have sufficient class 385 trains in service.

We've made no secret of the fact that Hitachi is behind schedule with the deliver of the new class 385 electric trains. We are supporting Hitachi as it finds a solution to the windscreen problem, so that we can get these trains into passenger service as soons as possible - once testing has been successfully complete [sic] and the train regulator (ORR) has given its approval

If you have any questions bout this, please don't hesitate to get in touch.
Best wishes
Angus"

View media item 3084

 

[D365]

I take it they have already been route cleared for where they are most likely to be utilised?

I’ll try and keep an ear out at my end. I haven’t heard as much recently regarding the 385s, let alone any interim solutions.

I imagine this will very much be the first time for a 365 north of York.

 

[mde]

Announcing its on its way and then an issue crops would send transport correspondent of the year Al Dalton into a meltdown.

This is true, but, he's probably already soliciting quotes about 24 year old EMUs…

Fortunately, in this instance I was more thinking of the Daily Record and The Sun - any hint of something coming in which doesnt immediately solve the problems down in Gourock (e.g. why oh why must we suffer the 'biscuit tin' 314s) is usually picked up by them. Or, like today's special BREAKING NEWS… the heating was on during a warm day.

Returning to topic though - I agree about testing, but, I think they'll be keen to communicate quickly that a solution is being tested while Hitachi come up with the goods.

 

[gingertom]

I’ll try and keep an ear out at my end. I haven’t heard as much recently regarding the 385s, let alone any interim solutions.

I imagine this will very much be the first time for a 365 north of York.

When the first 365 comes north for evaluation will it do so under its own power or will it be dragged?

 

[Domh245]

When the first 365 comes north for evaluation will it do so under its own power or will it be dragged?

Given the need for them to be cleared (which as @D365 often points out is problematic for them given their traction electronics) for the many miles between Peterborough and Scotland to enable them to run under their own power, I'd be amazed if it was anything other than a drag.

Edit to add: I've just seen a copy of the internal memo that has been shared elsewhere, and the person who shared it has mentioned potential road transportation to Springburn.

 

[gingertom]

Given the need for them to be cleared (which as @D365 often points out is problematic for them given their traction electronics) for the many miles between Peterborough and Scotland to enable them to run under their own power, I'd be amazed if it was anything other than a drag.

I recall a while back a javelin was dragged up the ECML to go on display at the NRM York and thought at the time was strange not to go under its own power.

 

[D365]

For one-off moves in particular it makes a lot more sense to just drag.

 

[Sirius]

If the first set is expected imminently how long would we reasonably expect before these enter passenger service?

 

[mde]

Indeed there has and no doubt Alastair Dalton at the Scotsman will print this and claim an "exclusive!" I'd be very careful about revealing the details of the memo.

I wouldn't worry - our favourite transport correspondent of the year is currently pursuing a story on the ScotRail reward promotion… He might not notice this one for a few days

 

[KingJ]

It's a little low quality, but here's the memo in question: https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/987607882484109315

 

[D365]

Don’t suppose there’s a text copy available at all?

As discussed above, it’s interesting to note:

Prior to operating the trains for passengers, modifications would be carried out on the trains to ensure compatibility with infrastructure in Scotland.

 

[Domh245]

Don’t suppose there’s a text copy available at all?

Just transposed it!

Hello,

As you know, we have been working flat out to secure electric trains to boost capacity for our customers this summer. I wanted to provide you with an update on this.

Over the coming days a class 365 electric train may arrive in Springburn for testing, ahead of a potential entry into service later in the summer.

No formal agreement has been reached, and we are working closely with the trade unions on this, but we are confident that these trains can make a big difference to our customers as we prepare for the deliver of the brand new Hitachi class 385 trains

The class 365 electric trains would boost capacity on the Edinburgh - Glasgow via Falkirk High route, and would mean more seats for our customers during peak times than there were in December.

The class 365 electric trains would:

• Be based at Eastfield and Millerhill depots;
• Run, in the main, as 8-cars;
• Be maintained at Shields depot;
• Be branded with "ScotRail" logos;
• Have cycle and wheelchair spaces;

We are developing training packages to support any introduction of these trains, and these will be consulted with our people and trade union representatives. Prior to operating the trains for passengers, modifications would be carried out on the trains to ensure compatibility with infrastructure in Scotland.

The extra capacity would also mean we are better placed to provide a great service to our customers during major events this summer, like The Open and the Edinburgh Festivals. The class 365 trains would provide a temporary solution until we have sufficient class 385 trains in service.

We've made no secret of the fact that Hitachi is behind schedule with the deliver of the new class 385 electric trains. We are supporting Hitachi as it finds a solution to the windscreen problem, so that we can get these trains into passenger service as soons as possible - once testing has been successfully complete [sic] and the train regulator (ORR) has given its approval

If you have any questions bout this, please don't hesitate to get in touch.
Best wishes
Angus

 

[jamieP]

Oh yeah, huh? Got a source for that?

I do but not one I need to mention on here.

 

[theblackwatch]

It's a little low quality, but here's the memo in question: https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/987607882484109315

A copy was posted here yesterday but has subsequently been deleted.

 

[D365]

Just transposed it!

Cheers.

 

[td97]

Could they be a medium/long term option for Scotrail's fleet or are they likely to only be an interim measure before 385s arrive?
I guess the issue could be most of the SR EMU fleet is 3-car, but these are 4-car so cannot be doubled up on some lines.

 

[Domh245]

Could they be a medium/long term option for Scotrail's fleet or are they likely to only be an interim measure before 385s arrive?
I guess the issue could be most of the SR EMU fleet is 3-car, but these are 4-car so cannot be doubled up on some lines.

They'll only be a short term measure. The franchise bid will have been based on the 385s entering service and utilising them, and so leasing in a small secondary fleet will throw that off (more so than it is already). And besides, what problem would you be looking to fix by using them?

 

[gingertom]

They'll only be a short term measure. The franchise bid will have been based on the 385s entering service and utilising them, and so leasing in a small secondary fleet will throw that off (more so than it is already). And besides, what problem would you be looking to fix by using them?

Scotrail has an option with Hitachi for an additional 10 class 385s, no doubt for more routes as they are wired or for additional capacity depending on their success. 10 365s planned to come north in the meantime. 10 would appear to be the significant number. A bit of pressure on Hitachi maybe?

 

[D365]

I’d be tempted to say Hitachi will throw in the ten units for free