Class 373 Eurostar withdrawals

[fredk]

Back of the class for you sunshine, more homework needed! Frankly, I'm not even sure I follow what you are on about in the last paragraph. 225s are not going to AGA for a start, and 373s are only, on average, 4 years younger than the 225 sets ......

I guess I am simply quite fond of the class 373s

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The 374s are not yet passed for Ashford

Just down to paperwork or has the physical checking of clearances not yet been done?

 

[TGV]

There were restrictions as to what else could be in the fed area as a result. It's also important to point out the NoL sets were limited to 110mph on the ECML, whereas the HSTs aren't, which given the relatively non-stop services likely made up for the difference in acceleration. And the fact that I believe they're axle loadings and track access charges were high.

They were only limited in the early phase of the project. They were eventually cleared to run at 125 from Woolmer Green to Grantham.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Just down to paperwork or has the physical checking of clearances not yet been done?

I thought it was the signalling. 374s not having TPWS.

 

[BR60062]

I was on TMST to Brussel in July chatting to the Chef de Train and was shocked beyond belief to hear her tell me that some of them will go for scrap.
What a waste of perfectly good high quality rolling stock!

This is criminal and should be stopped, these trains are a pleasure to travel on. How many sets are to be retained by EuroStar?

To be fair mate. The Eurostar Class 373's are around 23/24 years old if I remember right. As much as I like them. Once a train gets too expensive to maintain, the best option is to replace it with newer more better stock for today's market. To be fair, they have had a good run across Europe (Britain, France and Belgium) and must of racked up millions of miles too .

The 373's have a key weaknesses that are probably leading to their demise: -

1 - They are built to the cramped UK loading gauge rather than the larger European loading gauge.

2 - Their unique electrical system built to allow them to operate on the Southern DC 3rd rail and old BR signals, added to the SNCF and SNCB systems make them complex to maintain and restricts their usage.

3 - They are a small, non-standard sub set of a much larger TGV product.

4 - Unlike the class 374 or Thalys TGV sets, they cannot operate into Germany or the Netherlands, thwarting growth on Eurostar until the class 374s are ready.

They may only be just over 20 years old, but they no longer provide what any train operator needs, a flexible, economical train to operate, that passenger like. HS1 / CTRL was their death sentence, along with problems with snow and being a small unique bespoke fleet for which the need went 10 years ago!

Totally agree with you buddy. Back in the 1990's when the Chunnel was new, they were ideal and met the needs of the network back then when the Eurostars had to trundle though the third rail DC system to reach Folkstone. But since the CTRL opened in 2007. The 750v DC equipment is not needed now.

Which wouldn't be quite such an issue if Eurostar had maintained them. Most are in a disgraceful condition, having never had any bodywork attention since new.

True, but TOC's are not "Enthusiasts" and at the end of the day. Its all about making money and keeping expenses down to a minimum. From what I have learned about modern ways of doing bussiness. It works out cheaper to replace trains with new ones rather than giving older stock an expensive overhaul which wouldn't give a good return on the investment as where a new train would do so .

About as good as the 442s

Agreed! .

 

[Chris125]

Just down to paperwork or has the physical checking of clearances not yet been done?

374s weren't kitted out for use on the existing network so there's a project to fit ETCS - the ‘Ashford International Spurs Resignalling' - though yet to be completed it seems.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Do many people board/alight from Eurostar at Ashford International?

 

[Kentish Paul]

Do many people board/alight from Eurostar at Ashford International?

It varies. Not looked recently but a couple of years ago during school holidays quite a few (70/80) boarded the Disney train. The few arrivals i witnessed (mostly early evening) about a dozen alighted. Not sure where these departed from.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

3005/6 is apparently going to Kingsbury today...

 

[Cletus]

Are all the sets I'm likely to see in this country still with consecutive numbering?
ie 373001/002, etc.

 

[CosherB]

Night ops reported elsewhere online:

Unit sets down for disposal

373 001 - 022
373 101 - 108
373 201 - 232

6X73 2340 St Pancras - Kingsbury Wednesday/Thursday 21/22nd September 2016

Goes straight along Coalville branch. Awaits time at Branston Jn.

St Pancras 2340
Alexander Palace 0001
Welwyn 0031
Stevenage 0047
Huntingdon 0130
Peterborough 0202 - 0208
Oakham 0242
Melton 0309 (ex goods loop but no stop 0307)
Syston jn 0321
Leicester 0329 - 0348
Knighton jn 0353 - 0440
Bagworth jn 0500
Bardon Hill 0505
Coalville ML 0507
Lounge Jn 0514
Moira 0523
Birmingham Curve Jn 0534
Branston Jn 0535 - 0701
Wichnor Jn 0709
Tamworth HL 0717
Kingsbury Branch Jn 0726
Kingsbury SF 0734
Kingsbury sidings 0758

 

[XCTurbostar]

Night ops reported elsewhere online:

Looking on Wikipedia. Does that mean that Eurostar will own no Class 373s at all after this aside from the NoL fleet?

I didn't quite expect things to be going so quickly..

Thanks,
Ross

 

[CosherB]

Tonights/tomorrows movement now cancelled due to paperwork issues....

 

[XCTurbostar]

Tonights/tomorrows movement now cancelled due to paperwork issues....

How does the Eurostar movement into St Pancras work? is the unit prepared in Temple Mills and then taken up or does it come straight out of passenger service to go.

RTT appears to show that Platform 5 is the one which is used but I cant see another movement after 9I61 into Platform 5 after the GBRF loco comes in.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[sekimoke]

Tonights/tomorrows movement now cancelled due to paperwork issues....

Just for clarification was this a previous scheduled working that has now been cancelled and the movement for 21st/22nd Sept (pasted below) is still happening?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R00989/2016/09/21/advanced

thanks

 

[The Planner]

That is going to cause a lovely delay to 1O06 if that runs in that schedule.....

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How does the Eurostar movement into St Pancras work? is the unit prepared in Temple Mills and then taken up or does it come straight out of passenger service to go.

RTT appears to show that Platform 5 is the one which is used but I cant see another movement after 9I61 into Platform 5 after the GBRF loco comes in.

Thanks,
Ross

Probably out of Temple Mills; apparently 3005/6 was in traffic yesterday so it's effectively coming straight out of passenger service.

I dimly recall that 3005/6 was one of those, possibly the first, that carried a vinyl livery wrap at some point?

 

[59CosG95]

Probably out of Temple Mills; apparently 3005/6 was in traffic yesterday so it's effectively coming straight out of passenger service.

Out of TMI seems feasible, as the barrier coaches need to be attached.

 

[Cletus]

Thie website
http://www.kentrail.org.uk/fawkham_junction 2.htm
has a slightly clear picture than on post number 1.

 

[bluenoxid]

They also ran to Leeds. After the Leeds rebuild, platform 8 was long enough for a NoL 373 (though they were more often than not sent into 1 or 7). Wakefield was always way too short, so long dwells ensued.

Platform 6. 7 is the York facing bay.

 

[Phil.]

I wonder if and how long it'll be till Eurostar stick in an order with Siemens for 8 more class 374s

"Hello, Herr Siemens? Eight more trains please but this time can we have reliable ones that might make three trips without breaking down".

 

[59CosG95]

"Hello, Herr Siemens? Eight more trains please but this time can we have reliable ones that might make three trips without breaking down".

To quote Jonathan Pryce in Tomorrow Never Dies: "So much for German efficiency!"

 

[Goldfish62]

"Hello, Herr Siemens? Eight more trains please but this time can we have reliable ones that might make three trips without breaking down".

Multi-voltage Velaros don't seem to come in a reliable option. Witness the ICE3Ms which are still constantly breaking after all these years.

 

[59CosG95]

Multi-voltage Velaros don't seem to come in a reliable option. Witness the ICE3Ms which are still constantly breaking after all these years.

What, the BR406s? The 374s are derived from the more modern BR407s (Velaro D). No idea on the reliability of the Velaro Ds though.

 

[AlexNL]

BR 406 is known to be quite an unreliable train, despite the fancy looks. Thalys sets on the other hand seem to be quite solid.

 

[chiltern trev]

Article in Rail Magazine, Issue 810, September28-October 11 2016, page 14.

Eurostar prepares to scrap 186mph Class 373s.

“The 18-car trains will be scrapped by European Metal Recycling (RMR) at Kingsbury. The first train was due to move to EMR’s Midlands site as this issue of RAIL went to press.”

“GB Railfreight has been contracted to move the trains, and must use a Class 66 for the work as these have been fitted with specific coupling equipment enabling the ‘373s’ to be hauled on their final journeys. It is expected that when they arrive at EMR, it will take two days to shunt the trains due to their articulation which means the doomed carriages must be put on jacks to move into the EMR yard for disposal.”

 

[59CosG95]

“GB Railfreight has been contracted to move the trains, and must use a Class 66 for the work as these have been fitted with specific coupling equipment enabling the ‘373s’ to be hauled on their final journeys. It is expected that when they arrive at EMR, it will take two days to shunt the trains due to their articulation which means the doomed carriages must be put on jacks to move into the EMR yard for disposal.”

Ahh, presumably that means 66751 (with its coupler for the IEP) is more or less guaranteed to be on it (unless another 66 has received a coupler).

 

[snakeeyes]

Isn't there a further use rather than scrapping, such a shame when they are not that old.

 

[D365]

Isn't there a further use rather than scrapping, such a shame when they are not that old.

No there isn't, and they're at a good age for a high-speed train. We don't really need to go through this again.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Do we know when the next movement will be taking place?
Thanks,
Ross