Class 373 Eurostar withdrawals

[Dart34518]

According to the platform 5 2017 EMUs book, the following are to be refurbished (or have been already):
3007/08
3015/16
3205/06
3209/10
3211/12
3219/20
3221/22
3229/30

The following have gone for scrap:
3003/04
3005/06
3019/20

The first two had been in service, but 3019/20 had been stored out of use.

Corrections welcome!

Many thanks for this!

 

[59CosG95]

According to the platform 5 2017 EMUs book, the following are to be refurbished (or have been already):
3007/08-only repainted externally. Still has old interior.
3015/16-first fully refurbished set.
3205/06
3209/10
3211/12
3219/20-currently has repainted powercars, and trailers from 3203/3204.
3221/22
3229/30

The following have gone for scrap:
3003/04
3005/06
3019/20

The first two had been in service, but 3019/20 had been stored out of use.

Corrections welcome!

Corrections made in bold above. Very glad 3209/10's been given an extended stay of welcome, as I worked on that unit during a brief work experience spell at Temple Mills Int'l.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

3211/12
3219/20-currently has repainted powercars, and trailers from 3203/3204.

It's power cars 3211/2 that have the trailers from 3203/4.

 

[43096]

It's power cars 3211/2 that have the trailers from 3203/4.

If we're being technical/pedantic the end coaches in each 373 are actually motors, not trailers. Oh, and 3211/12 are the set numbers, not the power car numbers...

 

[Southern Dvr]

What's happening/happened to the 31xx series Eurostars?

 

[childwallblues]

What's happening/happened to the 31xx series Eurostars?

Isn't 3101/02 at Temple Mills?

 

[Mordac]

What's happening/happened to the 31xx series Eurostars?

Scrap!

 

[sd0733]

Isn't 3101/02 at Temple Mills?

Yes it's power cars are quite well stripped, believe one has got 3206.number on it now. There's a picture online somewhere. Also the trailers have sheets of metal over the doors.

Edit here's the picture: https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/steam60163/30125067013/in/search_QM_q_IS_373101. not mine

 

[brad465]

6 months on from discovering the Eurostar set on the now unconnected (mechanically and electronically) Fawkham Junction link, there is still one sitting there after passing a few days ago. Both RAIL magazine and people in this thread have said awaiting the scrap is the reason.

My question now is, does anyone know if is the same set still there (which would seem wrong) or are they slowly making progress getting them off the network for good (given 374s are being introduced and running regularlyish now)?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well... three sets have already made the one way journey to Kingsbury, so they are leaving the network.

 

[D365]

As far as I am aware, the Fawkham Junction link is being used for storage of the Class 373 sets awaiting disposal.

 

[baz2277]

Hi all,

Just passing through Kingsbury on the way back to Burton and just near the scrap place at the oil refinery I saw a Eurostar train there. I read that they were being withdrawn but surely not scrapped? Is there no use for them here in the UK? Or is there a reason they cannot be used?

Answers on a postcard....

 

[TheEdge]

Yes, most of the 373s are going for scrap. No, there is no further use for them. Suggestions for their future has got as ridiculous as 442 future...

 

[Steveman]

Yes the cutters torch is their fate.

 

[stut]

Surely Vivarail can do something with them? Turn them into OHLE destruction, sorry, inspection vehicles?

 

[QueensCurve]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=135311

Yes, most of the 373s are going for scrap. No, there is no further use for them. Suggestions for their future has got as ridiculous as 442 future...

It seems criminal to break up trains that are fast and comfortable and which are only about half way through their life.

I understand that Eurostar doesn't want them to be used by a competitor, but could they not be sold with a restrictive covenant?

Certainly it is to be hoped they will not go the way of the Blue Pullman. At least one set must be preserved for posterity, railtours etc.

 

[TheEdge]

It seems criminal to break up trains that are fast and comfortable and which are only about half way through their life.

I understand that Eurostar doesn't want them to be used by a competitor, but could they not be sold with a restrictive covenant?

Certainly it is to be hoped they will not go the way of the Blue Pullman. At least one set must be preserved for posterity, railtours etc.

They are not halfway through their life, they are very high speed sets all over 20 years old, they are the definition of life expired.

No one wants them, they are all but useless except for anything but long distance high speed travel and that is all tied up anyway.

 

[QueensCurve]

They are not halfway through their life, they are very high speed sets all over 20 years old, they are the definition of life expired.

No one wants them, they are all but useless except for anything but long distance high speed travel and that is all tied up anyway.

Are other very high speed sets deemed life expired at 20y old? Am I wrong in believing that the original PSE sets are still going?

 

[DelW]

It seems criminal to break up trains that are fast and comfortable and which are only about half way through their life.

I understand that Eurostar doesn't want them to be used by a competitor, but could they not be sold with a restrictive covenant?

Certainly it is to be hoped they will not go the way of the Blue Pullman. At least one set must be preserved for posterity, railtours etc.

Among the reasons which have been advanced on these forums are:

* They are mechanically and possibly electrically very worn, having spent many hours per week travelling at high speed for 20+ years
* Their multiple traction and signalling systems mean they are very complex and expensive to maintain
* Interiors of unrefurbished sets are very worn
* They are far too long for any stations other than those on HS1 and would be very difficult (and therefore expensive) to reconfigure as shorter sets
* They are very slow to embark / disembark pax at intermediate stations (only 1 narrow door per coach per side)
* They draw too much current for non-HS1 power supply equipment to deliver
* There is no shortage of long distance electric stock

As for railtours, how much demand would there be between St P, Ebbsfleet and Ashford - because using them anywhere else would be very problematic, not least for gauging reasons.

The sets used by GNER were much newer (then) and were the shorter sets, but even so their use was not straightforward, and GNER got rid of them as soon as they could.

 

[QueensCurve]

As for railtours, how much demand would there be between St P, Ebbsfleet and Ashford - because using them anywhere else would be very problematic, not least for gauging reasons.

The sets used by GNER were much newer (then) and were the shorter sets, but even so their use was not straightforward, and GNER got rid of them as soon as they could.

Thinking about the fact that sets had been used on the ECML.

I seem to recall complaints that they were unforgiving to the "fragile ECML wiring".

 

[sprinterguy]

Certainly it is to be hoped they will not go the way of the Blue Pullman. At least one set must be preserved for posterity, railtours etc.

One power car has been preserved by the National Railway Museum. I'm fairly confident that will be the sum total of preserved Eurostar vehicles, as who on earth would have the money, the manpower or the storage space to purchase, maintain and accommodate an electronically complex, massively long, fixed formation train, with no potential for use on preserved lines and very limited application on an extremely select number of mainline routes to even begin to attempt to recoup some of those costs?

The 'Blue Pullman' sets were a sad loss to the preservation world, as being diesel powered, virtually go anywhere sets with the capability of being reformed if required they would seem to have been eminently suited to luxury dining or land cruise operation, as per Belmond's successful "Northern Belle" Pullman operation using former Manchester Pullman vehicles in the present day. The Eurostar sets demonstrate none of these advantages.

 

[TheEdge]

Are other very high speed sets deemed life expired at 20y old? Am I wrong in believing that the original PSE sets are still going?

Well the ICE 1 sets are a few years older and were refurbished 2005-8 with the eye on an extra 10 years so they'll get to about the same age. The Shinkanshen sets don't seem to get much older than 15 before they are on the scrapheap, some even younger.

 

[D365]

The 'Blue Pullman' sets were a sad loss to the preservation world, as being diesel powered, virtually go anywhere sets with the capability of being reformed if required they would seem to have been eminently suited to luxury dining or land cruise operation, as per Belmond's successful "Northern Belle" Pullman operation using former Manchester Pullman vehicles in the present day. The Eurostar sets demonstrate none of these advantages.

If the Class 373s had any of those advantages, then I'm sure there would be a plethora of suggestions as to where they could be reused... oh hang on

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Am I wrong in believing that the original PSE sets are still going?

Only about 40 of them are still in use and some Atlantique sets have already gone as well.

 

[bastien]

Well the ICE 1 sets are a few years older and were refurbished 2005-8 with the eye on an extra 10 years so they'll get to about the same age. The Shinkanshen sets don't seem to get much older than 15 before they are on the scrapheap, some even younger.

The Shinkansen have low axle load, compared with European high speed stock, which might explain the shorter lifespan.

 

[CosherB]

The 'Blue Pullman' sets were a sad loss to the preservation world, as being diesel powered, virtually go anywhere sets with the capability of being reformed if required they would seem to have been eminently suited to luxury dining or land cruise operation, as per Belmond's successful "Northern Belle" Pullman operation using former Manchester Pullman vehicles in the present day. The Eurostar sets demonstrate none of these advantages.

Being a pedant for once :roll: the NB Mk2s are not from the Manchester Pullman sets - I too have made this mistake. The NB carriages are sourced from "regular" LHCS Mk2 coffins (and a couple of Mk1s). The remaining MP carriages form the 'Spirit of the Lakes' set operated by WCRC.

It would, however, have been good to have seen a preserved Blue Pullman set.

 

[sprinterguy]

Being a pedant for once :roll: the NB Mk2s are not from the Manchester Pullman sets - I too have made this mistake. The NB carriages are sourced from "regular" LHCS Mk2 coffins (and a couple of Mk1s). The remaining MP carriages form the 'Spirit of the Lakes' set operated by WCRC.

Ah yes, you're entirely right: Despite having observed the Northern Belle over a period of years, and been served a pint of ale and a bacon butty from a genuine ex-Manchester Pullman kitchen car on a West Coast rake, I still get confused with where they ended up.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The 'Blue Pullman' sets were a sad loss to the preservation world, as being diesel powered, virtually go anywhere sets with the capability of being reformed if required they would seem to have been eminently suited to luxury dining or land cruise operation, as per Belmond's successful "Northern Belle" Pullman operation using former Manchester Pullman vehicles in the present day. The Eurostar sets demonstrate none of these advantages.

From what I understand, the Blue Pullman sets were not kind to the track. Hence their early demise.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

It's worth pointing out that SNCF have traditionally had a massive oversupply of TGV sets available for traffic, and therefore utilisation / mileage rates for each trainset has been low, thereby artificially lengthening their lifespans. Eurostars by comparison have had high-mileage lives, most of which has been at full LGV speeds as they do not run for extended periods off the high speed routes.

I'm just as sad to see them retired though. It's a shame the Duplex concept has never been considered suitable, they're an awesome development of the basic single-deck train.

 

[sprinterguy]

From what I understand, the Blue Pullman sets were not kind to the track. Hence their early demise.

They rode roughly in some cases but I understand that the ride qualities of their Metro-Schlieren bogies were more unkind to the passengers onboard (primarily those travelling in the driving cars) than to the track. The Blue Pullmans were more a victim of comparable standards of comfort being offered to the travelling public on a regular basis through the introduction of air-conditioned mark 2s operating a clockface timetable, and to accelerated schedules between London and Manchester post WCML electrification, which resulted in the two Midland Pullman sets joining their lengthier brethren on the Western region, which reduced the gap between normal passenger and luxury Pullman trains.

After thirteen years of constant service the trains were in need of an internal upgrade which BR did not see fit to carry out in the face of changing market conditions.