Same parent company, yes but maintaince wise, it could be a bit of a struggle - the TL depots have to do a fine balancing act to make sure that theyre not over stocked on some occasions - though with the 455s gone, I wonder how much space is now available at Selhurst to do heavy maintence on stock.
TfL is managed differently and aren't usually held to the same criterior as NR
Reiterating what @jackot said- colds are predominantly spread by respiratory droplets, and the reason they spread in winter is that we spend more of our time in enclosed spaces, not because those spaces are heated.
They both have trains that carry standard MkI human beings.
So let's add to the rate of climate change by trying to override it.
A/C will become the major climate chage cause as the temperature rises.There's no guarantee that a retro fitted A/C system will be reliable or effective.
I note that you say "if". If we don't then it's not really a problem. If we do then a part of the blame for the heatwave is down to insisting on A/C.
I must admit Moorgate station is a lot less comfortable when the 717s arrived. The heat they take out the coach ends up somewhere- the platform.They both have trains that carry standard MkI human beings.
So let's add to the rate of climate change by trying to override it.
There's no guarantee that a retro fitted A/C system will be reliable or effective.
I note that you say "if". If we don't then it's not really a problem. If we do then a part of the blame for the heatwave is down to insisting on A/C.
I hardly believe that the increase in temperature outside of large cities is down to air conditioning on even a minor level, taking into account that countries and places that don't have air conditioned trains are still getting hotter - almost as if the air con isn't responsible for it.
Yes of course, the argument that 'my little contribution doesn't affect the total'. That's why we're in the dangerous place that we are. Every kWh that is used to do work generates heat! That's a fundamental of thermodynamics. Air conditioning, like all other forms of refrigeration, is always a net producer of heat. It doesn't create cold, it just moves heat from one place to another, converting higher forms of energy (e.g. electricity) to the lowest i.e. heat.
Yes, aircon may be responsible for tiny incremental local changes in the temperature of huge cities (by physically blowing heat from inside the train) - but the difference adding 36 more trains makes to this is basically zero as you said. The real issue is the electricity the a/c units use, but this is a very small number compared to the traction motors.
The HVAC systems on Electrostars and Turbostars are modular. There's no reason why they couldn't use the same design of system that's been proven in every other AC-fitted Electrostar and Turbostars. The 378 Capitalstars have air cooling already and are nearly identical to 376s.
That was an arguable concern originally, but it isn't really an issue. Plenty of other inner metro stock has air conditioning, both in London and world-wide in even hotter climates. Besides the 376s will be operating outdoors, whereas for example the 717s and S7/S8 LU stock operates in enclosed hot tunnels, and the AC still works fine.
The point is that retrofitting A/C into a train heavily used and 2/3 way into it's working life might not give the same results as a train fitted that way from new.
What difference would that make to a brand new AC system, when the trains were designed to be equipped with AC (hence the modular design?) And from my experience, the air cooling alone on 378s works perfectly well on metro stocks, while the full AC on 377s is, if anything, too effective!
It's not so much the brand new A/C system; the 376's are over 15 years old and if A/C wasn't specified at the time, then it might be that they were built in such a way in that A/C can't be retrofitted without some sort of reconstruction and rewiring and thus, incurring more costs. I doubt the owning company would like that
They retrofitted a lot of New York Subway cars from the 1960s with air con. I'm not sure how extensive the rebuild was, in terms of stripping out the cars, but they retained their original interior, and the hopper windows were simply riveted shut. They got another 30 odd years out of the R32 cars so it was probably it.
The 378s have full air conditioning. Don’t know where this urban myth that they only have air cooling has came from…
My apologies. I actually dug up an old map I had saved from a past heatwave showing air conditioned and air cooled routes. It showed 378s as air cooled!
SWT 455s spring to mind as a genuinely game-changing refurbishment. Although again, no retrofitted aircon, much like these 376s!
I've travelled on both but not extensively. The Southern ones were less roomy and comfortable and felt quite hot inside, unusually more than the SWT ones. The SWT ones from a passenger perspective were much better.
Possibly. One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that the 376s have hopper windows which don't lock. If aircon was to be fitted these would need to be either permanently sealed shut or have locks fitted which could only be opened by staff in the event of the aircon failing. Given the propensity of anti-social behaviour on the routes the units operate, it wouldn't surprise me to see those windows being forced open quite frequently. You could of course remove the windows entirely and replace with a one-piece pane, but that's another thing that costs money.
This. We've even got to the stage of having an "external refurbishment". That means a repaint.
However, those needed that kind of transformation at the time it happened. The 376s are people movers that aren't really broken. Apart from air conditioning and potentially a toilet, what about a 376 getting some new seat covers doesn't match the specification they would have under a more comprehensive refurbishment? They aren't perfect but it isn't obvious to me that a new build would be that different.
The hoppers on the Turbos on the North Downs line are only secured with a carriage-bell-heater key - which means you can open them with a house key!
Or the retention tank being full.
Or the added possibility of misusers hiding in toilets to evade paying the fare.
