Class 379 updates (all are OFF LEASE)

[Sutton in Ant]

that list is almost helpful.

it would be better if it differentiated between those off lease, and those ‘at risk’ with a corresponding end of lease date.

I made a mistake on who owns the rolling stock 379's. It is not Mcquaire Railway. It is https://www.akiem.com/en/acquisition-of-mers-rolling-stock-leasing-business/

 

[Class15]

How much lower are the leasing costs for 720s compared to 379s? Why didn't they keep the 379s along with the 720s?

 

[jopsuk]

How much lower are the leasing costs for 720s compared to 379s?

We don't know the numbers

Why didn't they keep the 379s along with the 720s?

Because the entire fleet plan was based around replacing four classes of EMU, a fleet of loco hauled carriages and three classes of DMU with two classes of EMU and one class of Hybrid MU

 

[Bald Rick]

That is just anecdotal.
The series of Golf GTIs that I had never let me down. Which is also anecdotal

How much lower are the leasing costs for 720s compared to 379s? Why didn't they keep the 379s along with the 720s?

Because then they’d have too many trains.

 

[dk1]

How much lower are the leasing costs for 720s compared to 379s? Why didn't they keep the 379s along with the 720s?

Wasn’t part of the plan. Once all 720s arrive we will be flush beyond belief.

 

[Class15]

Wasn’t part of the plan. Once all 720s arrive we will be flush beyond belief.

I personally hate 720s, 745s and 755s. I know that the 90s (some of my favourite trains) have found re-use with FL but that means that 86/6s have been withdrawn

 

[43096]

I personally hate 720s, 745s and 755s. I know that the 90s (some of my favourite trains) have found re-use with FL but that means that 86/6s have been withdrawn

They're running a public transport service, not a museum. The 755s, in particular, are an absolute step-change to a much higher quality level over the assorted 153/156/170 fleet they replaced.

 

[Class15]

They're running a public transport service, not a museum. The 755s, in particular, are an absolute step-change to a much higher quality level over the assorted 153/156/170 fleet they replaced.

I quite understand, but why did they replace 1-car Class 153s with 3-car 755s? Surely the 3 coaches are going to be empty.

 

[DanNCL]

I quite understand, but why did they replace 1-car Class 153s with 3-car 755s? Surely the 3 coaches are going to be empty.

No, the 1 car 153s weren't big enough for the job.

 

[43096]

I quite understand, but why did they replace 1-car Class 153s with 3-car 755s? Surely the 3 coaches are going to be empty.

The idea was a) a standardised fleet as far as possible, b) the 153s were already over crowded and c) improve the quality, then you get more passengers.

 

[Class15]

No, the 1 car 153s weren't big enough for the job.

The idea was a) a standardised fleet as far as possible, b) the 153s were already over crowded and c) improve the quality, then you get more passengers.

I see. I am beginning to question why I am interested in railways, when I don't seem to know anything!

 

[dk1]

I personally hate 720s, 745s and 755s. I know that the 90s (some of my favourite trains) have found re-use with FL but that means that 86/6s have been withdrawn

You just have to get over it. The new order is superb really.

 

[Class15]

You just h@vecto get over it. The new order is superb really.

I guess I will eventually!

 

[dk1]

I guess I will eventually!

Apart from the triviality of narrow aisles on 720s the Stadler order are some of the best new fleets anywhere in the UK right now in mine & many others opinion.

 

[Fincra5]

You just have to get over it. The new order is superb really.

The V8 "Powerpacks" Certainly give some good Thrash

 

[dk1]

The V8 "Powerpacks" Certainly give some good Thrash

That they do & definitely when I’m in charge. Who’d of thought we’d be so lucky in the UK to see this sort of traction grace our metals again?

 

[CDM]

Keeping the trains that are cheaper to lease (and off leasing the expensive ones) when revenue is massively down seems like a good idea to me, particularly as taxpayers are picking up the tab for the railway to a much larger degree than before

Although it is undeniably crap for the customers using the trains (who are, in the majority, also taxpayers!).
Class 317's are noisy and draughty as hell, which (particularly relevant for this time of year) makes them freezing cold.
Class 379 is a far superior train for the customers to be travelling on.

 

[Class 170101]

There are a pair of 379's at Orient Way too - but are they sitting awaiting a move into warm or cold storage?
As mentioned earlier, looks like GA canned one Southend service per hour and one of the Stratford to/from Bishops Stortford & Meridian Water diagrams to ensure all diagrams can be filled with the available 317's and 720's.

To clarify, the cancelled Stratford to Bishop's Stortford turns gains nothing in terms of units. They simply have a pair sitting in Bishop's Stortford sidings from 0925-1547.

See CDM's response below

I think it's fairly clear that the 379s are not intended to be used any more. Whether they are still on lease and available to use to avoid a cancellation I have no idea.

Still around at the moment but not for much longer

You're forgetting who's in control of costs in the rail industry at the moment. Under the new rail operating contracts, costs are covered by DfT and changes to the operating budgets are determined by them. Treasury is very keen to limit costs. So don't assume GA are in the lead on all such decisions

Costs, Damn lies and Statistics spring to mind here. Getting revenue back doesn't seem to matter to either operator or DfT.

 

[physics34]

I personally hate 720s, 745s and 755s. I know that the 90s (some of my favourite trains) have found re-use with FL but that means that 86/6s have been withdrawn

It was said that the 86s were going to be kept by FL depending on overhaul and demand. Sadly not confident we'll see them again.

 

[Roger B]

Here who owns the rolling stock in the UK. https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/off-lease-fleets

Thanks for the link. it would be great to see a more recent version - I see that one's nearly four years old - the magazine's dated 15/02/18! A lot's happened in that time.

 

[Railperf]

ah yes, keep the cheap trains that are falling apart and don't work, but scrap the fairly new trains that are a bit more expensive, to replace them with even newer trains, which are truly terrible. 720s are literally 317s in a new shell. Except the seats are in the ironing board style, not the comfy style of the 317s. Also, on a side note, ever noticed how the 720s don't seem to fit the height of the platforms? Yet another screwup from GA

was it a screwup - or do i recall reading somewhere that Stadler just didn't have the capacity to build the complete fleet? The issue with the 720's is purely the 3+2 seat layout and narrow aisles. Unfortunately GE and WA commuters have had to put up with 3+2 over the years, and the 720's are a huge upgrade in that sense.
For those that regularly used Class 379's -the 720's passenger experience is reduced - no first class and no tables - but you will more likely get a seat once these start regularly running in 2 x 5-car formations. Commuters will be happy about the latter. Leisure travellers to Cambridge may choose to use the GN service instead - unless they specifically live close to the WA route or east of Stratford.
To be fair, i'm more tempted to start using GN /Thameslink to Cambridge from now on, even though I live very close to Stratford - just purely down to comfort reasons.

They're running a public transport service, not a museum. The 755s, in particular, are an absolute step-change to a much higher quality level over the assorted 153/156/170 fleet they replaced.

755's are the best local/regional train by a country mile. If I had my way - these would be standard for all regional and local routes. Possibly the shortish diesel range is an issue?

 

[dk1]

755's are the best local/regional train by a country mile. If I had my way - these would be standard for all regional and local routes. Possibly the shortish diesel range is an issue?

That was purely a weight saving issue to allow them to run at Sprinter Speeds. Not sure if it could be adapted in another way or whether more battery use (they are pretty heavy to I know) could help.

 

[Class15]

It was said that the 86s were going to be kept by FL depending on overhaul and demand. Sadly not confident we'll see them again.

I’m not confident either as we seem to be allergic to freight-only electrification in this country (an example is the tiny Willesden-Acton Main Line curve).

In terms of the 379s, could they do GWR Oxford services of and when that line is electrified?

 

[JonathanH]

Leisure travellers to Cambridge may choose to use the GN service instead - unless they specifically live close to the WA route or east of Stratford.

There are factors other than the rolling stock. A lightly loaded class 720 has a perfectly acceptable and pleasant interior with carpet, plugs, reasonable seats.

The GN service will always be quicker because of the ability to run non-stop. It then comes down to price and convenience. It is pretty clear that travellers from Cambridge to London would tend to use the Kings Cross service but I don't think it is the use of 720s that will put them off going into Liverpool Street.

 

[Class15]

You just have to get over it. The new order is superb really.

May I add that the 745s do not have buffet cars but the Mark 3s did. Apparently there have been complaints about this.

 

[dk1]

May I add that the 745s do not have buffet cars but the Mark 3s did. Apparently there have been complaints about this.

The ten 745/0 do have a buffet counter.

 

[ashkeba]

Apart from the triviality of narrow aisles on 720s the Stadler order are some of the best new fleets anywhere in the UK right now in mine & many others opinion.

Only trivial to a thin person who walks without sticks or frame!

Agree on the Stadlers.

 

[dk1]

Only trivial to a thin person who walks without sticks or frame!

Agree on the Stadlers.

Breath in lol

Oh I better add be for I offend a fatty that I’m quite a chunky monkey & found them no problem even with my heavy work rucksack in tow.

 

[Class15]

The ten 745/0 do have a buffet counter.

Maybe I shouldn’t trust sources then. I’m absolutely certain I heard that the /0s didn’t have them but either where I heard it from was wrong or I am being stupid and once again I question why I am interested in railways when I know nothing.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I made a mistake on who owns the rolling stock 379's. It is not Mcquaire Railway. It is https://www.akiem.com/en/acquisition-of-mers-rolling-stock-leasing-business/

Who, if you dig down far enough, appear to be majority-owned by SNCF.