Class 387 to GN

[hedpe]

Is it different to what this photo shows?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrc31176/29562243283/

Only the seats have been swapped around as 1st class seat backs have velcro to attach the antimacassar. Apart from the pattern they are same as standard.

 

[Saint66]

Passed Bounds Green earlier on a VTEC service. Even though it was dark, it looked to me like there was two 387's sat there. I'm not going mad am I?

 

[Bishopstone]

First class has been rearranged. It has swapped sections with standard class on the driving coach. This means that the first set of doors behind the cab will bring you into standard class.

Not sure what you mean, here. Are you saying that first class is now in the same position as the GatEx 387s, ie the 22 seats behind the smoked glass partition door in one driving coach?

 

[superalbs]

Anybody know if they'll be running 110mph tomorrow, or are they limited due to the pantographs?

 

[Class377/5]

387110 is the first 387 in service on the GN working the following diagram

5R00 03+55 Hornsey Depot to Kings Cross
2R00 04.14 Kings Cross to Letchworth A/D (staff train)
3R41 06+09 Letchworth A/D to Letchworth
1R41 06.13 letchworth to Kings Cross
2C04 07.05 Kings Cross to Cambridge
2C39 08.55 Cambridge to Kings Cross
5E34 10+28 Kings Cross to Hornsey

Berth

5C26 16+23 Hornsey Depot to Kings Cross
2C26 16.53 Kings Cross to Cambridge
2C59 18.55 Cambridge to Kings Cross
5E47 20+42 Kings Cross to Hornsey Depot

 

[Domh245]

Anybody know if they'll be running 110mph tomorrow, or are they limited due to the pantographs?

The train should be 110mph capable with the pantograph that it has on ECML overhead wires. However, it'll probably be like the TPE 350/4 situation where the train is capable of 110mph but won't operate at it because of either a lack of paperwork being signed or because they don't want to screw up the timetables.

 

[petersi]

On the first diagrams only 1R41 is fast line long enough to get over 100mph

 

[Failed Unit]

The train should be 110mph capable with the pantograph that it has on ECML overhead wires. However, it'll probably be like the TPE 350/4 situation where the train is capable of 110mph but won't operate at it because of either a lack of paperwork being signed or because they don't want to screw up the timetables.

Adding to this, I understand 110 mph running wouldn't be much use to the majority of services.

I understand that a class 91 & 365 hit digswell at about the same time. Where they are likely to be signal checked anyway. After Digswell you are not that far from Stevenage with may taking the slow line. (Not sure where the Cambridge fast leave). I understand a 387 following a HST would be slowed by the HST so until IEP happens we won't see much benefit.

I am sure there isn't much route until Stevenage that is cleared for above 100mph but happy for a driver to correct me. 110mph would probably be nice on the non-stop Biggleswade/ st Neots. But travelling on the line in the peak it is so busy that hitting 100mph south of Stevenage is nice.

 

[jon0844]

On 387110 now and it's presented as the Thameslink service to London King's Cross!

So they could change the logo outside but not the text in software!

Edit: on the up fast since Potters Bar and between New Barnet and Oakleigh Park the train was jolting around all over the place. Quite uncomfortable. We're bouncing along quite nicely still as we pass Alexandra Palace.

Not sure I'd want these doing 110mph!

 

[D365]

On 387110 now and it's presented as the Thameslink service to London King's Cross!

So they could change the logo outside but not the text in software!

Thameslink Great Northern... it's not far off

To be honest, I'm almost surprised that they had the foresight to program the PIS for the Great Northern routes, indeed it was originally planned that 101-129 would be going to GWR.

Though let us wait and see if they have remembered to add "Cambridge North" in.

 

[Failed Unit]

On 387110 now and it's presented as the Thameslink service to London King's Cross!

So they could change the logo outside but not the text in software!

Edit: on the up fast since Potters Bar and between New Barnet and Oakleigh Park the train was jolting around all over the place. Quite uncomfortable. We're bouncing along quite nicely still as we pass Alexandra Palace.

Not sure I'd want these doing 110mph!

Was it nice and cosy in terms of overcrowding? I always tended to avoid that service because it is the first off peak service for many stations north of WGC.

 

[physics34]

Has 387110 still got green doors?

 

[jon0844]

Has 387110 still got green doors?

Yes. And 387120 which we passed.

 

[physics34]

Yes. And 387120 which we passed.

grrrr, the lack of attention to detail is annoying.

Theyve had ample time to stick light blue vinyls on the doors or something of that nature.

 

[westcoaster]

Looks like they have increased the first class to 1/3 of the front coach.

 

[jon0844]

Here's a short video that I made that shows inside and out.

https://youtu.be/M_cKzIgfyLc

I'm a little confused by first class as people walk through as you'd imaging to alight at King's Cross and when people run to board, they'll jump on the first set of doors (standard) and walk down, having to pass through first class.

They've also forgotten to put stickers up, relying on the antimacassars. Wonder how many people standing in the vestibule will get done, as they has to be considered first class given the lack of doors there (compared to 321s).

 

[Failed Unit]

The first class thing is bizarre. Why the haven't just gone for the areas behind the cab we will never know. It is not as if we are not used to it with the 365s and the 700s will be behind the cabs as well.

I also don't understand why they have so much of it. Other GN users will I am sure step in but it carts around fresh air most of the time. I have always considered the 321s over provisioned. The 365s are ok. We won't talk about the 317s.

 

[physics34]

Here's a short video that I made that shows inside and out.

https://youtu.be/M_cKzIgfyLc

I'm a little confused by first class as people walk through as you'd imaging to alight at King's Cross and when people run to board, they'll jump on the first set of doors (standard) and walk down, having to pass through first class.

They've also forgotten to put stickers up, relying on the antimacassars. Wonder how many people standing in the vestibule will get done, as they has to be considered first class given the lack of doors there (compared to 321s).

looks like theyve moved seat cushions and seat backs around...but as a result they have too many of the "first class" pattern ones, so looks a bit odd in the standard class section now. Does wonders for my OCD grrr!

 

[philjo]

The first class thing is bizarre. Why the haven't just gone for the areas behind the cab we will never know. It is not as if we are not used to it with the 365s and the 700s will be behind the cabs as well.

I also don't understand why they have so much of it. Other GN users will I am sure step in but it carts around fresh air most of the time. I have always considered the 321s over provisioned. The 365s are ok. We won't talk about the 317s.

Presumably aimed for when they are used later on the Kings Lynn Services.
on some of the morning peak 12-coach 365 services it looks like all of the 1st class sections are almost full.

 

[jon0844]

Presumably aimed for when they are used later on the Kings Lynn Services.
on some of the morning peak 12-coach 365 services it looks like all of the 1st class sections are almost full.

Is that because it's rather unlikely you'll get checked? I mean, once you've left Cambridge (as things stand now) then even if one set had RPIs, they can't do the whole train.

I imagine RPIs use the fast services to get about but aren't particularly fussed about doing checks?

 

[Failed Unit]

Presumably aimed for when they are used later on the Kings Lynn Services.
on some of the morning peak 12-coach 365 services it looks like all of the 1st class sections are almost full.

The killer question - full of people that have paid first class. It is amazing how many first class ticket sales potters bar has, when they know the chance of seeing an RPI onboard is low. Conversely- on the 0705 WGC - London kx the first class seats are last to go. Strange considering it is declassified. but when the 387 takes over that diagram - it won't matter as the seats are the same anyway.

 

[jon0844]

Was it nice and cosy in terms of overcrowding? I always tended to avoid that service because it is the first off peak service for many stations north of WGC.

Found a seat no problem at Hatfield and so did everyone that I could see that boarded at Potters Bar - bearing in mind I could see just 25% of the train at the country end.

I walked through from Finsbury Park to get to the London end (so I could walk back after and film) and it was pretty clear - although obviously a lot of people would have got off at FPK.

 

[bramling]

The first class thing is bizarre. Why the haven't just gone for the areas behind the cab we will never know. It is not as if we are not used to it with the 365s and the 700s will be behind the cabs as well.

I also don't understand why they have so much of it. Other GN users will I am sure step in but it carts around fresh air most of the time. I have always considered the 321s over provisioned. The 365s are ok. We won't talk about the 317s.

Cannot, whatsoever, understand why it's been done like this.

It's stupid to put First Class in the middle of any train, as it leads to a constant stream of people walking through, plus people (quite reasonably) finding themselves in there by mistake. It's also pretty laughable that you can have basically an identical seat in standard class at the opposite end of the train.

By far the best place is in the areas immediately adjacent to each cab. Walking through only becomes an issue when the train is coupled, and no single doorway on the train becomes first-class only.

Absolutely stupid. Bets on how long before this gets changed. Can guarantee there will be complaints galore about this arrangement.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Presumably aimed for when they are used later on the Kings Lynn Services.
on some of the morning peak 12-coach 365 services it looks like all of the 1st class sections are almost full.

If I'm understanding right, the way it's been done leads to a slight reduction in provision compared to a 4-car 365, as it's only one end of the train.

If so, one wonders if the rationale might actually be to reduce first class provision. Maybe someone has realised these trains do represent quite a reduction in seating capacity compared to a class 317/321.

A letter in my local paper sums up attitudes - "If these new trains mean I have less chance of getting a seat, I am quite happy to manage without air conditioning and keep the existing trains."

Notwithstanding the air conditioning issue, it's quite obvious the class 365 is a better train in many ways. It has a good seating capacity, yet maintaining plenty of standing space with a good wide aisle, without introducing all the passenger discomforts of the class 700. By contrast the class 387 is quite cramped.

 

[jon0844]

Not before they blitz them with revenue officers to get those caught out.

As with the other trains GN failed to out sufficient signs up for, when the seats are used the antimacassars are no longer visible.

What's wrong with stickers on windows or the internal doors? When you come in from the second coach, how would you know then?

 

[Bishopstone]

I think first class will work quite well in this position, with an internal door at each end of the 'compartment' providing an element of privacy and quiet.

The alternative is the twenty seats (total) behind the cabs at both ends, but without internal doors to these sections you just get chancers who 'perch', keeping one eye open for RPIs and usually escaping in time. You see this behaviour very regularly on the 377/1s.

With any MU connected by corridors there is 'through traffic', but I've never found this too disturbing. It usually settles shortly after departure.

 

[jon0844]

As said above, it will likely work better when they're moved to the King's Lynn services. Hopefully they'll get more stickers to make it more obvious by then too.

 

[Failed Unit]

I think first class will work quite well in this position, with an internal door at each end of the 'compartment' providing an element of privacy and quiet.

The alternative is the twenty seats (total) behind the cabs at both ends, but without internal doors to these sections you just get chancers who 'perch', keeping one eye open for RPIs and usually escaping in time. You see this behaviour very regularly on the 377/1s.

With any MU connected by corridors there is 'through traffic', but I've never found this too disturbing. It usually settles shortly after departure.

You can put partition doors anywhere so behind the cab is fine. You don't hear people complaining about the 365s. That is really how the 387 should have got done. Remember as well Scotrail but partition doors on their 370s when they converted some of their 370s. If the kings lynn route really does have lots of 1st class traffic, they won't be impress they now only have a standard class seat. At least the 365 gave you a better seat.

 

[swt_passenger]

With any MU connected by corridors there is 'through traffic', but I've never found this too disturbing. It usually settles shortly after departure.

Yeah, a couple of hundred 450s and 350s have been in regular service with first class in the middle of carriages for years without any apparent problems.

Mountains and molehills springs to mind...

 

[Bishopstone]

You can put partition doors anywhere so behind the cab is fine.

As a retro-fit? People have asked for partitions into First on the 377/1s (etc), to be told it was either technically impossible, or far too expensive even as part of a major overhaul programme. Maybe the 387s are more adaptable, but I doubt it.

Given the units will be working in multiple, much of the time, with 'through traffic' throughout the train, I don't think it makes much difference where they put first class. This arrangement in one driving coach seems to work fine on GatEx, as it did in the motor coach on the 442s which was right in the middle of the train.

 

[Failed Unit]

As a retro-fit? People have asked for partitions into First on the 377/1s (etc), to be told it was either technically impossible, or far too expensive even as part of a major overhaul programme. Maybe the 387s are more adaptable, but I doubt it.

Given the units will be working in multiple, much of the time, with 'through traffic' throughout the train, I don't think it makes much difference where they put first class. This arrangement in one driving coach seems to work fine on GatEx, as it did in the motor coach on the 442s which was right in the middle of the train.

All I know is that it was done on the class 170s. I know they are DMUs. But the are also from the same family of trains.