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Class 387 to GN

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Failed Unit

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For info - to the question do us people that moan about 387s also write directly - here is the response. Notice they mention class 700 :roll:

Great Northern said:
Thank you for contacting us regarding services on Great Northern.

First of all, I am sorry to hear of your experiences with our services as of late. We appreciate that travel in such conditions (even if it’s technically undertaken voluntarily) can be unpleasant and uncomfortable, but I can at least reassure you Great Northern does try and plan services so that the appropriate number of carriages are available on each train. It’s important to note that increasing carriages on one train will mean removing them from another as we have a limited number of trains we operate. During the busy peak periods, we operate as many trains as the infrastructure will allow, with the longest formations that we can, but we only have a finite number of train carriages at present that we can use to provide services for passengers.

The capacity of the carriages has increased over the years to accommodate the increase in passenger demand. This has partly been achieved by installing narrower seats on busier trains and adapting the seating to provide more standing room. Unfortunately due to infrastructure limitations, we cannot increase the size of the train carriages themselves, and increasing the number of carriages is not possible on many of our train routes due to the length of the platforms at some of our stations.

In regards to your comments surrounding our First Class carriages, if you have a standard class ticket and the train is very full this doesn't give you the right to occupy first class, standing or sitting. This would only be the case if explicitly announced by either on-train or platform staff. In extreme circumstances should the service be declassified, you may use any part of first or standard with your standard class ticket, although please do note this can change throughout the course of your journey dependant on our ongoing assessment of the situation.

In reference to your comments with regards to announcements on our services, our drivers are regularly updated during disruption; however there may be times when information can seem conflicting, as the situation changes. When this happens our drivers will do their best to keep you informed, but because of the nature of the driver's role it's not always possible to relay these changes as quickly as we would like.

Lastly regards to your comments in relation to signage marking the First Class areas more clearly, I should note that on our Class 700 services First class carriages are on the front and rear coach, but on many of our services the rear coach is de-classified automatically to help alleviate crowding. Nonetheless, we are grateful for all feedback, positive or not, as all comments are recorded and the trends we note can and do help shape future policies and decisions. Indeed I would like to thank you for taking the time and trouble to bring this to our attention.

The first sentance was annoying - technically voluntarily? They reduced the capacity not us - are they seriously suggesting that they want people to stop using thier services and drive instead? Next stop MP - saying GTR actually want passengers to avoid travelling with them as....
 
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philjo

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In the evening peak for last 2 months the following are certain 317s (well nearly)

1723 Kings Cross to Royston.
1752 Kings Cross to Royston. (Very rarely a 317 since the last diagram reshuffle)
1758 Kings Cross to Welwyn.

Not sure if any of these have changed in the recent reshuffle.

Are 387s still banned from platform 10 in multiple? I have a feeling the 1758 will be the last to convert.

Going the other way upto 2 weeks ago the following from wgc were 317.

0704 Welwyn- London.
0844 Welwyn - London.
0859 Welwyn- london. (0834 ex Letchworth)

I believe from Gen above the 0704 and 0859 are now 387s. (Same diagram) will know for sure next week.

the 17:23 has been 2x365 again when I used it on Monday and one day last week. The 17:14 to Ely was 2x317s on those days.
 

Failed Unit

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In shock today. Arrived at WGC to find the ex 1216 Peterborough- kings cross turn up with 8 coaches. Was I just lucky or are some services on Saturday now diagrammed with 8 coaches? (Was a 387 so it would have left people behind as 4 as it has in the past since the 321s went.) if it is common i will try and get the ex Peterborough trains more often
 

387star

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Quite surprised how tiny the stations (but then again the places are)mjust before cambridge meldreth etc they Looked four car max do the 365s have sdo?

on the 365s it seems strange the door open buttons for the gangways and the external door open buttons haven't been replaced.... Obviously not a requirement

Anyway back to 387s and probably been asked many times but will they go to kings lynn on the cambridge expresses and if so when ? The 365 was boiling today so they would be welcome
 
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jopsuk

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Meldreth Shepreth and Foxton are currently 4-car only. At the moment the only 8-car services that call there are morning peak ones which leave Cambridge with the rear four locked out of use until Royston. The 365s don't have SDO and don't have inter-unit gangways. At Shepreth and Foxton the Down platforms are currently being extended to 8 car ahead of Class 700 introduction as stopping a train longer than 4-cars there would block the level crossing- a major issue at Foxton. Running SDO with the front half of the train off the platform seems to be something to be avoided.

This, of course, has little to do with 387s!

The 387s are apparently supposed to transfer to the Kings Lynn service by the May timetable change.
 
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philjo

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I was on the 15:52 Kings Cross to Cambridge yesterday (2x387). it was a very rough ride just north of Copenhagen tunnel on the down slow. I was sat at the end of a coach.
 

notverydeep

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Does anyone on the forum know when GN Class 387 driver training will be complete and thus the final 317s expected to be stood down?

The remaining class 317s still seem to be booked on the 0844 Welwyn Garden City - King's Cross (2Y87) and the 1758 King's Cross - Welwyn Garden City (2V90), although 2V90 was a pair of 387s one day last week. The 317s also are still appearing on a variety of other workings, with the 17:14 King's Cross - Ely (1T02)and the 18:43 King's Cross - Peterbrough (1P70) often 317 worked.

This morning, 2Y87 was 317s as ususal, but rather going to depot, the pair (339 and 343) were sent straight back north working the 0922 London Kings Cross to Peterborough (1P46). I assume this substitution was because of driver knowledge rather than lack of 365s or 387s?
 

APUK002

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A good few months yet. Barely any Kings Cross drivers sign the 387. Two units are kept at Letchworth CSD for training so until these can be released I doubt you will see the last of the 317s.

Really, I,ve have a huge increase in 387 services from Letchworth/Stevenage to north and south? Which 2387's are at Letchworth CSD, when were they moved to there?
 

Failed Unit

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A good few months yet. Barely any Kings Cross drivers sign the 387. Two units are kept at Letchworth CSD for training so until these can be released I doubt you will see the last of the 317s.

I have heard they will be gone by the timetable change, which makes sense. Even if London are not trained the can daigram the 387s to avoid London drivers - lots of 387s for them.

At the moment they are on 2 diagrams normally not sure if either of them are London drivers. But if they are not hard to swap them for 365s.
 

nmr1h

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the 7:33 fast Huntingdon to Kings Cross turned up as a 12 car 387 this morning for the first time, has nearly always been a 12 car 365 in the 2 years I have been commuting on the service.

Only the 2nd time I have been in a 387, it didn't appear to be any more crowded than the usual 365's, and the ride was much the same as well.

Hopefully we will see 387's more regularly on the service, be nice to have an air conditioned train when (if) it finally warms up....
 

bramling

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the 7:33 fast Huntingdon to Kings Cross turned up as a 12 car 387 this morning for the first time, has nearly always been a 12 car 365 in the 2 years I have been commuting on the service.

Only the 2nd time I have been in a 387, it didn't appear to be any more crowded than the usual 365's, and the ride was much the same as well.

Hopefully we will see 387's more regularly on the service, be nice to have an air conditioned train when (if) it finally warms up....

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, however it's booked 3x365 from the May timetable. Indeed, virtually everything up from Peterborough in the morning peak is 365s. The only chance of 387s appearing is substituting for 365s, however vice working with the 317s/321s tended to be on the pair diagrams not the triples, and there's no reason for this trend to change.

If I remember rightly I think 2P99 0325 Peterborough-King's Cross will be 1x387 and 1P47 0707 Peterborough-King's Cross will be 2x387, that's about it. The lack of seat availability will certainly be felt on the latter service as it's one of the busier ones.

Regarding air-conditioning, one should be careful what one wishes for. The diagram involving your 1P07 service will come out from Peterborough Nene sidings, work 1P07, then stable at Hornsey, therefore watch out for it being a potential early change to Undesiro operation.
 
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bspahh

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Great Northern have a press release about extending the use of 387s to Kings Lynn
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/govia...orthern-services-to-be-doubled-at-ely-1944179

One of the comments is

“Crucially, although most of the four-carriage King’s Lynn trains cannot stop at Cambridge North until platforms are lengthened at Watlington, Littleport and Waterbeach, these one dozen extra King’s Cross trains at Ely should ease crowding on the King's Lynn services which will be a real boon for our passengers.”

I'm not quite sure you need a platform for 8 coaches to be able to stop a 4 coach train somewhere else.
 
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bramling

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Great Northern have a press release about extending the use of 387s to Kings Lynn
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/govia...orthern-services-to-be-doubled-at-ely-1944179

One of the comments is



I'm not quite sure you need a platform for 8 coaches to be able to stop a 4 coach train somewhere else.

One suspects its either a pathing and/or crowding issue. Apart from the couple of peak services, everything to Kings Lynn remains 4 cars. Therefore it does make sense for the extra Ely services, most of which are 8 cars, to be the ones to make the call. Also, could the Kings Lynn timetabling absorb the extra call without a major timetable change? (Genuine question - I don't know the answer). The only difficulty is people making the Cambridge North<>Waterbeach journey, but how many people would actually do that journey when its probably easier to drive?
 
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jopsuk

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Certainly at peak time it is not unknown for services calling at Waterbeach to leave passengers on the platform (or, northbound in the evening- for people to be over-carried as they can't get off)

However, off peak that's not an issue- so it is presumably more a pathing issue which can be more easily sorted with next year's Thameslink timetable shake-up
 

Hadders

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the 7:33 fast Huntingdon to Kings Cross turned up as a 12 car 387 this morning for the first time, has nearly always been a 12 car 365 in the 2 years I have been commuting on the service.

Only the 2nd time I have been in a 387, it didn't appear to be any more crowded than the usual 365's, and the ride was much the same as well.

Hopefully we will see 387's more regularly on the service, be nice to have an air conditioned train when (if) it finally warms up....

Oh dear, I really hope not as that a train I often use from Stevenage. You'll still get a seat from Huntingdon but it's the folk from Stevenage that'll probably now have to stand everyday, most days it's possible to get a seat in the rear carriages.

What's wrong with opening the windows when it's hot?
 

bramling

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The manner in which they try to close themselves through the tunnels.

Very easy to resolve on 365s with a ball of newspaper stuffed in the right place. Didn't really work on 317s or 321s though.

Meanwhile been on a few 387s this week as haven't had time to travel in a way which avoids them. Noticed a few of the windows are broken open. Obviously GN passengers aren't finding the 387s quite as cool as a cucumber as promised in GTR's stupid press release. Maybe the Fen Line lot will receive them better when they have them inflicted upon them in 2.5 weeks time.
 

Roast Veg

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As well as total inadequacy when the service is too packed for air to flow, not suitable for passengers with restricted mobility, no fine degree of control, increase in loud external noises being heard while open, rattling and banging in general, and very slow to warm up if they've been left open for some time.
 

Ianno87

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The only difficulty is people making the Cambridge North<>Waterbeach journey, but how many people would actually do that journey when its probably easier to drive?

Traffic congestion into the Science Park off the A10 can be pretty bad in rush hour, and pretty slow-going. The only available bus is pretty slow too.

As soon as a regular direct service gets put in, I'm sure demand would appear in the peak to justify it.

Off-peak, I'd imagine that there would be few people making the journey. Although if you've got a bike (as many do) and headed to the centre of Cambridge, cycling in from Cambridge North may be just as attractive as from Cambridge Hauptbahnhof, so you never know...
 

D365

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Meanwhile been on a few 387s this week as haven't had time to travel in a way which avoids them. Noticed a few of the windows are broken open. Obviously GN passengers aren't finding the 387s quite as cool as a cucumber as promised in GTR's stupid press release.

Or maybe the (certain types of) punters just seem to like vandalism for the sake of it...
 

glbotu

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One suspects its either a pathing and/or crowding issue. Apart from the couple of peak services, everything to Kings Lynn remains 4 cars. Therefore it does make sense for the extra Ely services, most of which are 8 cars, to be the ones to make the call. Also, could the Kings Lynn timetabling absorb the extra call without a major timetable change? (Genuine question - I don't know the answer). The only difficulty is people making the Cambridge North<>Waterbeach journey, but how many people would actually do that journey when its probably easier to drive?

Easier to drive is, well, not necessarily true. Yes, it's a short distance and can be done in about 6 minutes.........outside the peak. It is a daily occurrence for A14 traffic to back the A10 up all the way to Waterbeach and beyond. The problem is the entry to the science park/business park is also the main A10/A14 junction. I would suggest that a non-trivial number of people at Waterbeach would be pretty happy to hop on a train for the 5 minute journey to Cambridge North.
 

nmr1h

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Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, however it's booked 3x365 from the May timetable. Indeed, virtually everything up from Peterborough in the morning peak is 365s. The only chance of 387s appearing is substituting for 365s, however vice working with the 317s/321s tended to be on the pair diagrams not the triples, and there's no reason for this trend to change.

If I remember rightly I think 2P99 0325 Peterborough-King's Cross will be 1x387 and 1P47 0707 Peterborough-King's Cross will be 2x387, that's about it. The lack of seat availability will certainly be felt on the latter service as it's one of the busier ones.

Regarding air-conditioning, one should be careful what one wishes for. The diagram involving your 1P07 service will come out from Peterborough Nene sidings, work 1P07, then stable at Hornsey, therefore watch out for it being a potential early change to Undesiro operation.

Back to 3*365 this morning, so yesterday must have been a one off.

There were no more people standing on the service yesterday than there usually are after Stevenage, but then I always sit in the second to last car....

Well I would be happy with the service to move to a 12 car 700, as that also has aircon, as long it works..... An 8 car 700 would however be a nightmare!
 

TheDavibob

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Easier to drive is, well, not necessarily true. Yes, it's a short distance and can be done in about 6 minutes.........outside the peak. It is a daily occurrence for A14 traffic to back the A10 up all the way to Waterbeach and beyond. The problem is the entry to the science park/business park is also the main A10/A14 junction. I would suggest that a non-trivial number of people at Waterbeach would be pretty happy to hop on a train for the 5 minute journey to Cambridge North.

I agree that people will do the train journey. Heck, if I lived in Waterbeach and worked in the Science Park I would cycle into work, let alone drive.

I think the current problem is that Cambridge North will be too popular, and thus the four car Kings Lynn - Cambridge train, which cannot already cope with the number of people as is, can't pick up the extra traffic than Cambridge North will generate.

Ironically, one could argue that Cambridge North is open too early, before they've a) sorted out the power supply and b) lengthened platforms at Waterbeach/en route to Kings Lynn.
 

bramling

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Or maybe the (certain types of) punters just seem to like vandalism for the sake of it...

I suspect that if the windows are pulled hard enough then they will open. Many fixtures on Electrostars tend to be a little on the flimsy side.

I wouldn't have thought it's mindless vandalism - generally the GN doesn't tend to suffer too badly from this in my experience.
 

notverydeep

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Unusually, the 387s for tonight's 2C32 1822 King's Cross to Royston and Cambridge have been substituted with 365535 and 365502. As this has been a 387 diagram for some months, am I right to presume GN are a bit tight for units now the remaining 317s have been stood down? No one standing in the front half!
 
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Mordac

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I suspect that if the windows are pulled hard enough then they will open. Many fixtures on Electrostars tend to be a little on the flimsy side.

I wouldn't have thought it's mindless vandalism - generally the GN doesn't tend to suffer too badly from this in my experience.

Maybe they should have fit an open window button! :D
 

Failed Unit

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Unusually, the 387s for tonight's 2C32 1822 King's Cross to Royston and Cambridge have been substituted with 365535 and 365502. As this has been a 387 diagram for some months, am I right to presume GN are a bit tight for units now the remaining 317s have been stood down? No one standing in the front half!

Yes it was an unexpected pleasure this evening. Seats. Should write to great northern to say thank-you.
 

bramling

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Unusually, the 387s for tonight's 2C32 1822 King's Cross to Royston and Cambridge have been substituted with 365535 and 365502. As this has been a 387 diagram for some months, am I right to presume GN are a bit tight for units now the remaining 317s have been stood down? No one standing in the front half!

They in theory shouldn't be tight, as there are currently 28x 387s for only 22x 317/321 diagrams. 387124 is now at Hornsey (don't know if it's in service yet?), and 365520 is also back (not yet in service as far as I know - although others may know different?). If can't remember if the number of 365 diagrams reduced at some point - my memory tells me it did, but I haven't got the diagrams in front of me to check.

Things got mixed up yesterday for some reason, so this may have carried over into today. For example, if a 3x365 service was covered by 3x387, this could still mean a 2x387 service is covered by 2x365, meaning the net 387 vice 365 is only one unit. This occasionally used to happen with the 317s/321s.

To add to this, I noticed tonight's 2015 Peterborough to KX was 2x387, on a 365 diagram. This was of course one of the diagrams where 317s had been turning up.
 
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bramling

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I agree that people will do the train journey. Heck, if I lived in Waterbeach and worked in the Science Park I would cycle into work, let alone drive.

I think the current problem is that Cambridge North will be too popular, and thus the four car Kings Lynn - Cambridge train, which cannot already cope with the number of people as is, can't pick up the extra traffic than Cambridge North will generate.

Ironically, one could argue that Cambridge North is open too early, before they've a) sorted out the power supply and b) lengthened platforms at Waterbeach/en route to Kings Lynn.

I shall have to bow to more local knowledge on this. Looking at the map, it is slightly further from Waterbeach to the Science Park than I thought. I don't think *I* would bother making my way to the station, taking a train for a short journey, followed by a fair walk from Cambridge North station to the science park, but obviously others may differ. I can't see that many from further afield *driving* to Waterbeach first though, especially as Waterbeach is not exactly suitable for use as a "park & ride" station.
 
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