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Class 387

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trainmania100

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Don't you think that if the seats were as bad as you imply, that passengers would have already done something about that? I doubt that postings here complaining about the firm seats are typical of most passengers. St Albans station has the largest number of passengers commuting into London on 377/s and 387s and complaints about seats are hardly an issue. Most users are just grateful for the extra capacity that they bring.

In my opinion I ddidn't think the seats were much different on the Gatwickexpress 387s to the tThameslink ones if not the same
They are softer than the ones on my local buses anyway
 
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southern442

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Don't you think that if the seats were as bad as you imply, that passengers would have already done something about that? I doubt that postings here complaining about the firm seats are typical of most passengers. St Albans station has the largest number of passengers commuting into London on 377/s and 387s and complaints about seats are hardly an issue. Most users are just grateful for the extra capacity that they bring.

The main issue here it that they are such a step down from the 442's (particularly first class) whereas they aren't too bad compared to the 319's they replaced. The 319 seats were much comfier but their positioning was atrocious, so at least that's one thing I guess!
 
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Don't you think that if the seats were as bad as you imply, that passengers would have already done something about that? I doubt that postings here complaining about the firm seats are typical of most passengers. St Albans station has the largest number of passengers commuting into London on 377/s and 387s and complaints about seats are hardly an issue. Most users are just grateful for the extra capacity that they bring.

That's because St Albans passengers rarely get to sample the seats in the am peak. Some posters on here imply that we should be grateful for whatever the train designers deem fit to call a seat.

Maybe unloading in the Core would be better facilitated by replacing the seats with spikes. Someone who is impaled on a spike will be much more crashworthly, since they won't be inconveniently slipping off a seat. In addition, they'd be more than happy to relinquish their seat/spike at the end of their journey or to allow a "priority passenger" to use it.
 
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387star

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To save me starting a new thread...

Electrostar related...

Why do southern 377s seat back tables on the ironing board style seats squeak so badly and eventually fail to raise altogether? Is this incurable? I wondered if the minor refresh had solved this but alas the problem has reappeared... Wd40 has been mentioned but must have been tried?

I don't mind electrostars but find the seating to be far too tight on the 3+2 areas so that if you sit on the outermost seat you are often banged against by passing passengers

Also I find the interior looks unfinished with bolts and fittings clearly visible as well as too many sections joining together panelling the interior bodyside and heater grills ... The dividing 'lines' do not sit evenly with the side tables either... There are also coat hangers in odd places like at the back of luggage racks... Clearly a modular design
The desiros have a clean white wall without so many sections .... The joins are also white so perhaps not so noticeable
All minor gripes of course but the 387s look better in this regard
 
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Observer

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Who thought it was a good idea to make first class seats the same iron boards as the rest of the seating? Those who go for first class for a better seat are surely going to be disappointed.
 

physics34

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To save me starting a new thread...

Electrostar related...

Why do southern 377s seat back tables on the ironing board style seats squeak so badly and eventually fail to raise altogether? Is this incurable? I wondered if the minor refresh had solved this but alas the problem has reappeared... Wd40 has been mentioned but must have been tried?

I don't mind electrostars but find the seating to be far too tight on the 3+2 areas so that if you sit on the outermost seat you are often banged against by passing passengers

The 3+2 concept is no longer in favour as you have noticed with 377/6s now just 2+2. It is badly designed. The electrostar body is narrower that VEPs for example, where 3+2 was just about ok.

SOuthern had a great opportunity to alter and improve the seating layouts of the 377s during their refresh but, of course, they didnt.
 
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Class 170101

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The 3+2 concept is no longer in favour as you have noticed with 377/6s now just 2+2. It is badly designed. The electrostar body is narrower that VEPs for example, where 3+2 was just about ok.

SOuthern had a great opportunity to alter and improve the seating layouts of the 377s during their refresh but, of course, they didnt.

2+2 is probably the way to go because as a population we are getting wider and that seems unlikely to change any time soon. In terms of capacity it creates more standing space where it is unlikely there will be major investment coming on stream anytime soon so to cope with the growth the railways are seeing this is likely to be the way to go. However a balance will have to be struck because of Passengers in Excess of Capacity (PIXC) statistics. The fewer seats there are the greater the PIXC becomes.
 

AM9

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2+2 is probably the way to go because as a population we are getting wider and that seems unlikely to change any time soon. In terms of capacity it creates more standing space where it is unlikely there will be major investment coming on stream anytime soon so to cope with the growth the railways are seeing this is likely to be the way to go. However a balance will have to be struck because of Passengers in Excess of Capacity (PIXC) statistics. The fewer seats there are the greater the PIXC becomes.

Not if PIXC for a given line is (re-)defined to include the number of standing passengers that can be safely carried. This would be likely for Thameslink as there will be no viable option to run more longer trains.
 

LT3001

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Who thought it was a good idea to make first class seats the same iron boards as the rest of the seating? Those who go for first class for a better seat are surely going to be disappointed.

The general idea seems to be if you pay for First class, the key luxury is that you'll almost always be guaranteed a seat.
 

jon0844

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Maybe unloading in the Core would be better facilitated by replacing the seats with spikes. Someone who is impaled on a spike will be much more crashworthly, since they won't be inconveniently slipping off a seat. In addition, they'd be more than happy to relinquish their seat/spike at the end of their journey or to allow a "priority passenger" to use it.

Forget spikes. The next generation of seat will be the thickness of a razor blade!

(having been in Munich last week, I not only sat on similarly thin seats as our modern trains but even sat on a wooden seat! And this was a new metro train!)

c3ca26e3ca19638a28efb852da6571da.jpg
 
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physics34

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Forget spikes. The next generation of seat will be the thickness of a razor blade!

(having been in Munich last week, I not only sat on similarly thin seats as our modern trains but even sat on a wooden seat! And this was a new metro train!)

c3ca26e3ca19638a28efb852da6571da.jpg
Cor, pretty odd design the way the seats are concave like that. Not ideal if every seat is taken. Slot of touching-knees going on there.
 

swt_passenger

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Not if PIXC for a given line is (re-)defined to include the number of standing passengers that can be safely carried.

It is exactly that. The 'C' in PIXC is most definitely the authorised seating and standing capacities combined - at least for those services that are allowed a standing capacity.

It is only the longer distance services, those that do not stop within 20 mins of the main terminus, where the capacity is based on seats only.

Hence a particular train type can have a different baseline capacity for PIXC depending on the service it is operating on.

The DfT's brief on the PIXC figures each time the statistics comes out does actually explain all this, this is the usual paragraph:

For shorter journeys, where the journey time between stations at the most crowded point is 20 minutes or less, the capacity figures given in the table take account of the number of standard seats plus a standing allowance, which is based on the type of rolling stock. For longer-distance services, where there is a gap longer than 20 minutes between stations, capacity is calculated as the number of standard seats only. A number of services included in the table have their capacity calculated as “seats plus standing” in line with the definition above.
 
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AM9

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It is exactly that. The 'C' in PIXC is most definitely the authorised seating and standing capacities combined - at least for those services that are allowed a standing capacity.

It is only the longer distance services, those that do not stop within 20 mins of the main terminus, where the capacity is based on seats only.

Hence a particular train type can have a different baseline capacity for PIXC depending on the service it is operating on.

The DfT's brief on the PIXC figures each time the statistics comes out does actually explain all this, this is the usual paragraph:

Which is to be fair, the right way to do it. The alternative of seats-only being counted is an overprovision for the outer reaches of lines.
 

47802

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So as someone from Northern land and spent some longer journeys than Gatwick Express on 142's with the original Bus style seats I think its time to stop moaning about the seats, and just for good measure it would seem that the new Scotrail 385 units while they do have better 1st class, standard class will be similar to the 387's:lol:
 

phil beard

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I saw my first pair of 387/2 in full GatEx decals this lunch time as I was parking at Waitrose in Horley. A lot of white lining included and with branding that looked much better than the plain red ones passing through on test.
 

Class377/5

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I saw my first pair of 387/2 in full GatEx decals this lunch time as I was parking at Waitrose in Horley. A lot of white lining included and with branding that looked much better than the plain red ones passing through on test.

387207/211 on test.
 

southern442

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So as someone from Northern land and spent some longer journeys than Gatwick Express on 142's with the original Bus style seats I think its time to stop moaning about the seats, and just for good measure it would seem that the new Scotrail 385 units while they do have better 1st class, standard class will be similar to the 387's:lol:

I didn't realize that we lived in a communist society! It bloody well seems like it with these bloody seats that seem to be state regulation!
 

Starmill

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We're perfectly entiled to a) question the Standards and b) moan about seats that have been designed as cheaply as possible with little or no concession to comfort.
 

AM9

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We're perfectly entiled to a) question the Standards and b) moan about seats that have been designed as cheaply as possible with little or no concession to comfort.

That might give you a nice warm feeling but I doubt that anything will actually be changed.
 
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