Class 387

[racyrich]

Can confirm, 1G91 was formed of 304/301/302 this morning. What a pleasant change. Seated for almost half the journey and ample standing space for the rest. Reminds me of what c2c used to be like when I first started using it in 2012 The 12-car set caught me by surprise so I only ended up in vehicle 9 this morning, I wonder if I'd have strolled further down I would have got a seat from Upminster. I'm determined to achieve that at some point

Edit: I now notice c2c have tweeted that this service will 'permanently' be 12 carriages. Does that mean that a 12-car 387 is now booked on this service every day, or just that, whichever units are used, there are going to be three of them?

I use that every day from Basildon (8.09 from there). Previously I always went for the last (happily quiet) coach of the 357s and always got a seat.
Last Monday with the 387s the rear was packed but as it came in I could see the front was only half full. And sure enough for the rest of the week I easily got a seat in the front 2 carriages, which seems amazing. Most people got off at West Ham or Limehouse - it was practically empty by Fen St.
Today, knowing it would be a 12 I headed to the back and was in coach 10, under the pan. It still looked pretty empty up front when it came past and of course there were seats throughout anyway.
No doubt things will rebalance once word gets round. I can't get a seat anywhere on the preceding 8.02 so that'll probably lose some custom to the 8.09.
I see the Jan timetable makes alot of changes in that bit of the morning.

 

[samuelmorris]

It's my daily service as well, though I've used that time since the previous timetable when the 0824 was a Stanford service instead, so I'm pretty happy that I've managed to ride three of the new units already just by doing that. I normally found vehicle 7 to be the most practical compromise on an 8-car service (avoiding the very first/last vehicle or having to stand near a VCB). Just goes to show how many board between Basildon and West Horndon as all the 8-car 387 services so far have been heaving, with barely any room to move whether front or back. Nonetheless as long as they resist the temptation to reintroduce the nuisance stop at Barking, a 12-car 387 comfortably fits this service, it's not yet bad enough to justify a 12-car 357 (or heaven forbid a 12-car Metro 357).

 

[Orange Box]

c2c are moving to 12 carriage DOO very very soon. Was told unions are expected to sign off on it very very soon. As the new timetable has more 12 carriage services than they have guards.

Can't be that imminent, put a missive out recently about vacancies for people to be seconded into the roll...

 

[Grumpy]

Only a casual suggestion. but we can't keep ordering new trains every time there's a requirement for extra stock, while the number of surplus EMUs grows, especially with the electrification that might use them gets pushed further and further back.

Spot on. The nation has a huge Balance of Payments deficit, huge foreign debts and the Government is okaying the purchase of new EMU's from the likes of Siemens and CAF when we have the 3xx's surplus or about to become surplus. They would be ideal for the low mileage two trips a day peak hour diagrams.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Spot on. The nation has a huge Balance of Payments deficit, huge foreign debts and the Government is okaying the purchase of new EMU's from the likes of Siemens and CAF when we have the 3xx's surplus or about to become surplus. They would be ideal for the low mileage two trips a day peak hour diagrams.

Bit like in the good ole days . When BR had older stock lying around that they could occasionally use to cover some peak demand. Remember, for instance, the summer Saturday specials anyone ?. I remember thinking the last of the 2-HAPs were brought out to cover the morning and evening peaks only between Medway and London.

And yes I was wondering where all these 3xx EMUs were going to go even before most of the electrification got curtailed. Mind you they would not be much use for electrified intercity routes. So maybe really there should be some more urban electrification done. Perhaps Birmingham, the Cardiff Valleys and Chiltern. Granted North Trans Pennine could get away with using them. In addition those sorts of electrification are more likely to free up the kind of diesel trains that are in short supply.

 

[Class377/5]

Spot on. The nation has a huge Balance of Payments deficit, huge foreign debts and the Government is okaying the purchase of new EMU's from the likes of Siemens and CAF when we have the 3xx's surplus or about to become surplus. They would be ideal for the low mileage two trips a day peak hour diagrams.

You may have missed the point made recently in railway mags that new is now almost the same cost as current stock. Don't forget the need for the accessibility must apply to all stock (or atleast that's the view being taken) meaning new is easier to get now than every before especially when you may need to send this surplus stock away for weeks at a time while it's upgraded.

 

[swt class 450]

Does anyone know why the 23:45 London Victoria to Gatwick Airport 00:23 service is only a 4 coach 387/2 today instead of the usual 12 coach 3x 387/2 formation?

 

[spark001uk]

Does anyone know why the 23:45 London Victoria to Gatwick Airport 00:23 service is only a 4 coach 387/2 today instead of the usual 12 coach 3x 387/2 formation?

Maybe another operator can't afford them so they stole it.!

 

[chris11256]

Can't be that imminent, put a missive out recently about vacancies for people to be seconded into the roll...

That just what I was told at November passenger panel meeting. Things may have changed since, but c2c management said unions were expected to sign within a week.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Does anyone know why the 23:45 London Victoria to Gatwick Airport 00:23 service is only a 4 coach 387/2 today instead of the usual 12 coach 3x 387/2 formation?

On Saturday they were running an approximately equal mix of four, eight and twelve car units so I guess they might just have a few of them out of traffic with the usual epidemic of wheelflats for the time of year ( leaf fall season )?

 

[Grumpy]

You may have missed the point made recently in railway mags that new is now almost the same cost as current stock. Don't forget the need for the accessibility must apply to all stock (or atleast that's the view being taken) meaning new is easier to get now than every before especially when you may need to send this surplus stock away for weeks at a time while it's upgraded.

New stock might be more profitable from the operators' perspective, but that doesn't mean the nation can afford it. Better money be spent within the UK on staff and parts to refurbish that which has potentially years of potential life rather than taking on more foreign debt.

 

[D365]

New stock might be more profitable from the operators' perspective, but that doesn't mean the nation can afford it. Better money be spent within the UK on staff and parts to refurbish that which has potentially years of potential life rather than taking on more foreign debt.

Surely it's ROSCO money and doesn't belong to the taxpayer.

 

[Class377/5]

New stock might be more profitable from the operators' perspective, but that doesn't mean the nation can afford it. Better money be spent within the UK on staff and parts to refurbish that which has potentially years of potential life rather than taking on more foreign debt.

Don't think you understand. New or old, pretty much the same cost now. So unless your saying we can't afford to rent the trains we have no, your points missinthe, er, point.

 

[Mikey C]

Don't think you understand. New or old, pretty much the same cost now. So unless your saying we can't afford to rent the trains we have no, your points missinthe, er, point.

Surely if ROSCOs are stuck with older stock with no current use, they'll reduce the leasing rates to make them more competitive against newer stock?

Politically, it would also be seen as unacceptable if 321s and 365s (for example) were being scrapped with passengers were forced to stand on new, but 4 car trains...

 

[hwl]

Surely if ROSCOs are stuck with older stock with no current use, they'll reduce the leasing rates to make them more competitive against newer stock?

Politically, it would also be seen as unacceptable if 321s and 365s (for example) were being scrapped with passengers were forced to stand on new, but 4 car trains...

Not when the old stock needs costly upgrades to meet 2020 AND other requirements (accessible loos, new door buttons, modern working PIS, chages to seating layouts to sort dwell time issues that investment then needs to be recouped over a relatively short remaining lifetime of that stock. Hence with low interest rates the annual cost that a Rosco could offer both options at is relatively similar and with new stock there isn't temporary loss of capacity during refurbishment for the franchise to cope with.

 

[samuelmorris]

On the seating argument - this evening I'm riding a refreshed GA 317/5, this morning i had a c2c 387/3. Honestly, the 387 seats were quite significantly more comfortable. I can't speak for the other 317 fleets but although there is at least some cushioning in this /5 rather than springs only like the overground /8 I used earlier in the year, they're pretty dire seats :P I can only assume the GM ones are better for people to consider either 387 or 700 seats a downgrade (capacity notwithstanding)...

 

[Kite159]

Without going back pages to highlight potentially an old diagram, can confirm the latest diagrams for the C2C 387s?

 

[chris11256]

As far as I'm aware it's still the 07:43 from Thorpe Bay in the morning. I'm not sure what it runs as in the evening.

I don't think any more have entered service yet.

 

[JonathanH]

As far as I'm aware it's still the 07:43 from Thorpe Bay in the morning. I'm not sure what it runs as in the evening.

I don't think any more have entered service yet.

17.43 Fenchurch Street to Leigh-on-Sea in the evening - stops Limehouse, Barking, Laindon, Benfleet, Leigh-on-Sea and then runs empty to Shoeburyness depot.

 

[leomartin125]

Some news on the GWR 387's...

Train Paths have now been uploaded to the Train Servers for Electrostar testing between Reading T.C.D. and Didcot West End effective immediatley (despite there not being any Electrostars at Reading Depot. I was on my way to Didcot Parkway today and noticed these paths, and thought I would see an Electrostar at Didcot, but sadly none of the paths had operated this week so far, and I can't see any operating in the near future either. For reference, the link to them is below, and anyone who can take a guess when this tetsing begins will be a big help:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/RDNGTCD/to/DIDCWE/2016/11/30/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[Kite159]

17.43 Fenchurch Street to Leigh-on-Sea in the evening - stops Limehouse, Barking, Laindon, Benfleet, Leigh-on-Sea and then runs empty to Shoeburyness depot.

Many thanks

I might try and aim for it this Friday, only to Limehouse, before heading back towards Victoria for the 18:30 Brighton service to see if any required 387/2s pop up [I don't think it is a strike on Friday]

 

[FGW_DID]

Some news on the GWR 387's...

Train Paths have now been uploaded to the Train Servers for Electrostar testing between Reading T.C.D. and Didcot West End effective immediatley (despite there not being any Electrostars at Reading Depot. I was on my way to Didcot Parkway today and noticed these paths, and thought I would see an Electrostar at Didcot, but sadly none of the paths had operated this week so far, and I can't see any operating in the near future either. For reference, the link to them is below, and anyone who can take a guess when this tetsing begins will be a big help:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/RDNGTCD/to/DIDCWE/2016/11/30/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Been in the system for at least the last month or so. Diagram is for driver training but as you say, has never been used, mainly down to the fact there wasn't any power or 387s at Reading. This may of course change after this Sunday coming when the depot is energised but there are still no 387s at Reading (yet!).

Diagrams are also out (posted further back ^ thread) for the 387s being dragged from W Ealing to the TCD and back for scheduled maintenance work.

 

[leomartin125]

Been in the system for at least the last month or so. Diagram is for driver training but as you say, has never been used, mainly down to the fact there wasn't any power or 387s at Reading. This may of course change after this Sunday coming when the depot is energised but there are still no 387s at Reading (yet!).

Diagrams are also out (posted further back ^ thread) for the 387s being dragged from W Ealing to the TCD and back for scheduled maintenance work.

Are there any links to these diagrams? I know there are diagrams, effective from Jan 2016, for 387 moves between West Ealing EMU Sidings and Maidenhead, and for services between Maidenhead and London Paddington, all 'timed as Electric Multiple Unit'. No idea why these are in the system, I thought 387's weren't Maidenhead bound till May 2017?

 

[causton]

Are there any links to these diagrams? I know there are diagrams, effective from Jan 2016, for 387 moves between West Ealing EMU Sidings and Maidenhead, and for services between Maidenhead and London Paddington, all 'timed as Electric Multiple Unit'. No idea why these are in the system, I thought 387's weren't Maidenhead bound till May 2017?

Got to test them first!

Probably just put in there to reserve the paths for the whole timetable period and will be used as and when the infrastructure is ready.

 

[Class377/5]

Don't forget any path expected to be required in that timetable period will need to be in the system. GWR will have secured the paths before NR will have announced delays to the wiring.

 

[FGW_DID]

Are there any links to these diagrams? I know there are diagrams, effective from Jan 2016, for 387 moves between West Ealing EMU Sidings and Maidenhead, and for services between Maidenhead and London Paddington, all 'timed as Electric Multiple Unit'. No idea why these are in the system, I thought 387's weren't Maidenhead bound till May 2017?

If you needed them you would be on the distribution list. They are in RTT now:

5R87 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C23356/2017/01/05/advanced

5G87 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C23355/2017/01/05/advanced

Whilst looking at these paths, I noticed there are paths in for Turbo moves between Reading TCD & St Phillips Marsh:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C49039/2017/01/05/advanced

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C28538/2017/01/05/advanced

 

[leomartin125]

If you needed them you would be on the distribution list. They are in RTT now:

5R87 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C23356/2017/01/05/advanced

5G87 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C23355/2017/01/05/advanced

Whilst looking at these paths, I noticed there are paths in for Turbo moves between Reading TCD & St Phillips Marsh:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C49039/2017/01/05/advanced

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C28538/2017/01/05/advanced

What will the 387's be dragged by to Reading TCD? Do our 57's have the capability of hauling 387's, dellner couplings? Or will we need to bring in a loco, like a ROG 37?

 

[superalbs]

What will the 387's be dragged by to Reading TCD? Do our 57's have the capability of hauling 387's, dellner couplings? Or will we need to bring in a loco, like a ROG 37?

Don't forget 57303 and 57306!

 

[FGW_DID]

What will the 387's be dragged by to Reading TCD? Do our 57's have the capability of hauling 387's, dellner couplings? Or will we need to bring in a loco, like a ROG 37?

According to the diagram, it will be a Dellner fitted 57. One trip each way booked to run TWThO.

Runs light engine from the Oak to West Ealing then as ^ previous post ^.

 

[Mordac]

Have 305 and 306 entered service with C2C yet?