Class 390 Refurbishment

[tonysk14]

Morning,

I thought that at least one Avanti Pendolino should have been internally refurbished by now.

Does anybody have any information on when the programme is likely to begin and when we are likely to see a refurbished set.

 

[59CosG95]

Morning,

I thought that at least one Avanti Pendolino should have been internally refurbished by now.

Does anybody have any information on when the programme is likely to begin and when we are likely to see a refurbished set.

Possibly once the 221 fleet refresh is complete, given that that programme is due to finish by December the 18th.

 

[ScottGallagher]

I asked them on live chat the other day when i was making a refund enquiry and they had not even a vague idea if it will even happen at all.
Don't be surprised now it's being propped up by Government if all that happens is a voyager style refresh, which wouldn't bother me particularly as long as the airline seats got sockets.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I asked them on live chat the other day when i was making a refund enquiry and they had not even a vague idea if it will even happen at all.
Don't be surprised now it's being propped up by Government if all that happens is a voyager style refresh, which wouldn't bother me particularly as long as the airline seats got sockets.

That would be a disgraceful going-back on their franchise commitments. "Brand new seats" "revolutionised catering car" or something like that. It's not acceptable.

 

[Bungle965]

I asked them on live chat the other day when i was making a refund enquiry and they had not even a vague idea if it will even happen at all.

Definitely still going ahead, Spring 2021 was the last I heard.

 

[ScottGallagher]

That would be a disgraceful going-back on their franchise commitments. "Brand new seats" "revolutionised catering car" or something like that. It's not acceptable.

The problem is that was then. I've no doubt if they could wriggle out of it and do a Voyager job (maybe not even that) they would, money talks and as it hasn't started is it really something the Government wants to pay for right now?

 

[Bletchleyite]

That would be a disgraceful going-back on their franchise commitments. "Brand new seats" "revolutionised catering car" or something like that. It's not acceptable.

Franchise commitments mean nothing; franchises are dead. The Government gets what it wants to pay for now.

TBH I don't see why a Voyager style job would be that terrible. They're not terrible interiors at all, really, just need a spruce-up, and I don't think I ever heard someone complain about the seats (though legroom is a bit tight), and First Class is the best on the network in my view. The major fault (tiny windows) isn't fixable.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Franchise commitments mean nothing; franchises are dead. The Government gets what it wants to pay for now.

TBH I don't see why a Voyager style job would be that terrible. They're not terrible interiors at all, really, just need a spruce-up, and I don't think I ever heard someone complain about the seats (though legroom is a bit tight), and First Class is the best on the network in my view. The major fault (tiny windows) isn't fixable.

They need an armrest. They work five hour journeys.

 

[Fisherman80]

Franchise commitments mean nothing; franchises are dead. The Government gets what it wants to pay for now.

TBH I don't see why a Voyager style job would be that terrible. They're not terrible interiors at all, really, just need a spruce-up, and I don't think I ever heard someone complain about the seats (though legroom is a bit tight), and First Class is the best on the network in my view. The major fault (tiny windows) isn't fixable.

Couldn't agree more. I hope Avanti keep the seats already on the pendolino and voyager sets and just put new cushions on them,and also keep the same type of interior lighting. The interior lighting installed on the Azumas for example are way too bright.

 

[43096]

Franchise commitments mean nothing; franchises are dead. The Government gets what it wants to pay for now.

TBH I don't see why a Voyager style job would be that terrible. They're not terrible interiors at all, really, just need a spruce-up, and I don't think I ever heard someone complain about the seats (though legroom is a bit tight), and First Class is the best on the network in my view. The major fault (tiny windows) isn't fixable.

Where’ve you been for the last 18 years!? The Virgin fleets were and are subject to plenty of criticism on seat comfort. Personally, I find the standard class seats appallingly uncomfortable, to the point where I get back and neck pain after an hour or so.

 

[Dan15812]

Possibly once the 221 fleet refresh is complete, given that that programme is due to finish by December the 18th.

Will that be an opportunity for XC to do something with there Voyager Fleet.
I do hope XC do a even better job than AWC since there are no plan for them to be replaced.
Haven't they had a three year extension, this gives it the pefect opportunity.

Sorry to be a bit off topic!

 

[HarryL]

I asked them on live chat the other day when i was making a refund enquiry and they had not even a vague idea if it will even happen at all.

I've never had to use the AWC/VT live chat so not sure how it works, but if you were talking to the refund team, they wouldn't have anything to do with the refurbishments and thus wouldn't know anything about it.

 

[Trackman]

I asked them on live chat the other day when i was making a refund enquiry and they had not even a vague idea if it will even happen at all.
Don't be surprised now it's being propped up by Government if all that happens is a voyager style refresh, which wouldn't bother me particularly as long as the airline seats got sockets.

The way I look at it is the contract has already been signed unless there is some sort of get out clause.
The £642m maintenance contract includes about £127m for the Pendolino refurb.

Possibly once the 221 fleet refresh is complete, given that that programme is due to finish by December the 18th.

That would tie in with what Avanti have said.

 

[ScottGallagher]

I've never had to use the AWC/VT live chat so not sure how it works, but if you were talking to the refund team, they wouldn't have anything to do with the refurbishments and thus wouldn't know anything about it.

I don't think it's a refund team per say but yes that's fair enough if you went into proper detailed questioning on spec and timeframes, I just asked if it was happening at all.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Is there actually an update on this? Considering Avanti were waxing lyrical about it only a year ago , of course the pandemic has caused delays, but to date there has been no artists impression released (unless I've missed it), and avoidance of all official talk of it by them at least publicly. Yet they have no issue regarding releasing info on their new Class 805/807 units. I just find it very odd.

For me all bets are still off

 

[Ceat0908]

Is there actually an update on this? Considering Avanti were waxing lyrical about it only a year ago , of course the pandemic has caused delays, but to date there has been no artists impression released (unless I've missed it), and avoidance of all official talk of it by them at least publicly. Yet they have no issue regarding releasing info on their new Class 805/807 units. I just find it very odd.

For me all bets are still off

Someone asked them on Twitter yesterday and they said to check back with them in the near future. So I imagine it is still happening and I’m pretty sure it was part of their franchise commitments and they have already signed the deal with Alstom.

 

[Hadders]

The way I look at it is the contract has already been signed unless there is some sort of get out clause.
The £642m maintenance contract includes about £127m for the Pendolino refurb.

The get out clause is that the original contract has effectively been ripped up and replaced by the Emergency Measures Agreement.

 

[ScottGallagher]

The get out clause is that the original contract has effectively been ripped up and replaced by the Emergency Measures Agreement.

Could it be fair to assume that there is or was a contract dispute going on between Avanti and Alstom on the basis Avanti/DFT wanting to descope or cancel altogether and Alstom trying to hold them to the original agreement hence the wall of silence and fob offs.

The original contract would have had a penalty clause for cancellation but as you say Hadders that was then and it would be an easier argument in court now.

Someone asked them on Twitter yesterday and they said to check back with them in the near future. So I imagine it is still happening and I’m pretty sure it was part of their franchise commitments and they have already signed the deal with Alstom.

I think I learned that lesson when I asked on the live chat through the website (now gone) as I haven't got twitter. I imagine it's the same team who genuinely don't know or have been told not to elaborate.
On a lighter note their twitter feed can be quite amusing

 

[Trackman]

I've found this press release from yesterday (quite by accident).
So it looks like things are now moving along.

Alstom, a provider of the widest range of smart solutions in the UK rail market, has renewed and expanded its contract for a further three years with Wincanton, a leading supply chain partner for UK business.

Under the new contract, Wincanton will extend the breadth of services which it offers Alstom, through the creation of a logistics facility designed to meet Alstom’s future service needs. Wincanton will provide a dedicated warehouse solution for the refurbishment of Alstom’s high-speed passenger train fleet - Class 390 Pendolino.

Wincanton will support the refurbishment through the establishment of a 71,000 sq ft warehouse facility in Haydock, near Liverpool. Materials will be migrated from an existing facility in Warrington to enable production support for the refurbishment programme. In addition, the facility will be used for both recycling and waste management from the site.

Alstom and Wincanton have worked in partnership since 2018, with Wincanton providing a dedicated service to manage and control the flow of materials for the maintenance and refurbishment of Alstom passenger trains in the UK.

Wincanton will continue to undertake inventory management for Alstom from a 44,000 sq ft shared-user facility in Blackburn, servicing Alstom’s ground transportation business, whilst managing all associated transport movements and depot deliveries1.

Over the past three years, Wincanton has delivered an 18% reduction in transport costs and achieved its sustainability target of 0% of waste to landfill.

News and media

A collection of our news and media insights showcasing a selection of major press release, thought leadership, success story, guides, videos and more projects from across Wincanton. Use the filters to refine your search.

www.wincanton.co.uk

 

[Dan15812]

This video from Angel trains gives a very nice artist impression of the Class 390 refurbishment.

 

[fgwrich]

This video from Angel trains gives a very nice artist impression of the Class 390 refurbishment.

Interesting, so they seem to be exploring different types of seat options, ranging from smart new coverings to using the design of the Eastern European seat I’ve seen mooted previously.

 

[delt1c]

Are we at last to see a proper Buffet on the 390's instead of the shop?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This video from Angel trains gives a very nice artist impression of the Class 390 refurbishment.

These are concept designs from a while ago and not necessarily what we will be actually getting.

 

[Trackman]

These are concept designs from a while ago and not necessarily what we will be actually getting.

Yes, it's been discussed elsewhere as those vestibule displays were trialled years ago on the training coaches at Crewe.
I wonder what the K Bar is, I assume it's in the end of coach K?
I've never ventured down that far so I do not know the full layout.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, it's been discussed elsewhere as those vestibule displays were trialled years ago on the training coaches at Crewe.
I wonder what the K Bar is, I assume it's in the end of coach K?

I guess so. The staff will love it in their unofficial messroom!

 

[Trackman]

I guess so. The staff will love it in their unofficial messroom!

That's why I stay away, dont want to be told off for sitting in their seat!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's why I stay away, dont want to be told off for sitting in their seat!

FWIW those concepts do look great - just the kind of "Italian flair" I'd hoped for from Avanti. I hope they do adopt at least some of them.

 

[bramling]

I guess so. The staff will love it in their unofficial messroom!

Bit injudicious to stick a catering outlet at the extreme end of the train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bit injudicious to stick a catering outlet at the extreme end of the train.

It appears to be a self service "bar" for First Class passengers, so having it in First Class probably makes sense!

 

[ScottGallagher]

Hopefully we will see some word from Avanti soon with a final rendition !