Class 395 Javelin - Opinions

[greyman42]

I have not been on one for about 18 months but travelling through the tunnel between St.Pancras and Stratford, I get the impression that the train sways from side to side. Is this caused by the turbulence in the tunnel or is it my imagination. It is not uncomfortable and for a commuter train has great build quality.

 

[matt_world2004]

It is very japanese with its bleeps and bloops

 

[superalbs]

Oh, ok.

Although, I won't deny there are a lot of missing centre armrests, all seats by door pockets are missing them sadly. I believe, a trait continued on the Class 800.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I feel bored on them because I see the Eurostars whilst riding and think “wow I wish I was on one of those instead”

Bet you wouldn't feel bored if you saw the Networkers whilst riding and think "wow I'm so glad I'm not on one of those..."

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Bet you wouldn't feel bored if you saw the Networkers whilst riding and think "wow I'm so glad I'm not on one of those..."

Very true

 

[matthewmacleod]

I really like them. Perfectly suited to the route. They're definitely getting uncomfortably full at peak times though; it feels like they need more units, but I'm not sure what the chance of that is.

One small gripe is the time it takes to open the doors. There's some kind of cam system that seems to take a while to engage, and I'm often unsure if I've actually opened the door or not – despite riding them hundreds of times!

 

[Clip]

Great trains really enjoy travelling on them

One small gripe is the time it takes to open the doors. There's some kind of cam system that seems to take a while to engage, and I'm often unsure if I've actually opened the door or not – despite riding them hundreds of times!

This always catches me out and I go to press the button again even after all these years

 

[FlippyFF]

Currently on 1J13 Ashford to St Pancras running wrong road between Lenham Heath and Crismill.

The only seats without centre armrests are the seats adjacent to the door pockets and the two tables seats in front of those, so sixteen seats and eight arm rests per coach (for the four centre coaches) and the tip up seats but I'm not sure about the seats adjacent to the non-accessible toilet in the other driving car.

My only real complaint about these units are the inconsistant leg room - the priority seats have the most followed by the inner seats by the doors (not the door pocket seats) and then the others. Table seats not included as thats dependant on who sits opposite you.

Oh, and a few squeeky/rattlely interior panels normally above the doors.

Simon
J48

 

[FlippyFF]

(deleted)

 

[urpert]

I really like them. Perfectly suited to the route. They're definitely getting uncomfortably full at peak times though; it feels like they need more units, but I'm not sure what the chance of that is.

One small gripe is the time it takes to open the doors. There's some kind of cam system that seems to take a while to engage, and I'm often unsure if I've actually opened the door or not – despite riding them hundreds of times!

If the Hastings high speed plan goes ahead, i wonder whether Hitachi would be able to build an 800 variant with 1/3:2/3 doors, DC and TVM? Would seem easier than trying to restart production of 390s (and I understand they are technically pretty similar)

 

[LunchSociety]

I said between!

The only seats that don't have armrests between them are, I believe, the ones next to the door pockets for somewhat obvious reasons.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I really like them. Perfectly suited to the route. They're definitely getting uncomfortably full at peak times though; it feels like they need more units, but I'm not sure what the chance of that is.

One small gripe is the time it takes to open the doors. There's some kind of cam system that seems to take a while to engage, and I'm often unsure if I've actually opened the door or not – despite riding them hundreds of times!

I believe that's to do with the pressure seal system fitted to these doors. Getting such a seal is a little more complicated with a sliding door compared to a swing plug door but it's what the Japanese are familiar with so was a deliberate part of the design on their part.

 

[talldave]

I believe that's to do with the pressure seal system fitted to these doors. Getting such a seal is a little more complicated with a sliding door compared to a swing plug door but it's what the Japanese are familiar with so was a deliberate part of the design on their part.

Yes, but the design could be better if the pressure released before the train came to a halt - then the door opening could be immediate.

 

[AverageTD]

It’s great at both high speed and low speeds, the air con is great and seats are comfortable (armrests) would be nice. Probably my favourite 125mph capable unit on British tracks but I haven’t been on the 374s yet

 

[Bromley boy]

It’s great at both high speed and low speeds, the air con is great and seats are comfortable (armrests) would be nice. Probably my favourite 125mph capable unit on British tracks but I haven’t been on the 374s yet

And capable of rather more than 125mph!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It’s great at both high speed and low speeds, the air con is great and seats are comfortable (armrests) would be nice. Probably my favourite 125mph capable unit on British tracks but I haven’t been on the 374s yet

I find it hard to believe someone could prefer Javelins to HSTs, IC225s, Pendolinos or even e300s but OK...

 

[Agent_Squash]

I find it hard to believe someone could prefer Javelins to HSTs, IC225s, Pendolinos or even e300s but OK...

Why? I'd much prefer a modern, fast electric train than a HST - even if it's only a glorified commuter service!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Why? I'd much prefer a modern, fast electric train than a HST - even if it's only a glorified commuter service!

Oh same with me for sure, I prefer Pendolinos over HSTs any day, I was speaking for the general majority who don’t.

 

[D365]

Weren’t you telling us a few weeks ago that you absolutely despise travelling on HSTs and consider them to effectively be death traps?

 

[superalbs]

I find it hard to believe someone could prefer Javelins to HSTs, IC225s, Pendolinos or even e300s but OK...

I do find it odd how the Class 395 (a commuter train), is vastly higher spec comfort wise than the Class 800 (a long-distance train).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I do find it odd how the Class 395 (a commuter train), is vastly higher spec comfort wise than the Class 800 (a long-distance train).

Indeed, the seats are of a much better quality!

 

[bastien]

I do find it odd how the Class 395 (a commuter train), is vastly higher spec comfort wise than the Class 800 (a long-distance train).

Not that I'd ever suggest this has anything to do with it, but: One of these trains serves the South East, the other serves the South West & Wales.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Not that I'd ever suggest this has anything to do with it, but: One of these trains serves the South East, the other serves the South West & Wales.

Well it’s weird, the SW had remarkably nicer trains than the grotty 465s down in the SE

 

[Chester1]

Not that I'd ever suggest this has anything to do with it, but: One of these trains serves the South East, the other serves the South West & Wales.

Or more likely it is because the IET specification was decided by a DfT commitee to meet a range of different goals while the 395 spec was chosen by the Rosco, ToC and manufacturer.

If the Hastings high speed plan goes ahead, i wonder whether Hitachi would be able to build an 800 variant with 1/3:2/3 doors, DC and TVM? Would seem easier than trying to restart production of 390s (and I understand they are technically pretty similar)

I suggested something similar to that for Corby EMU services to maintain an intercity standard for passengers who currently travel on HSTs and Meridians. There doesn't seem to be a significant problem with placing 800/801/802 doors at thirds because as you said they are very similar to 395s. An 800 variant would be the obvious choice for Hastings to St Pancras because line speeds would be too low and diesel running to short to benefit from the 802s uprated engines and bigger fuel tanks. I am not sure the service should be introduced but I am very sure it will because Amber Rudd has the influence to make it happen and needs local achievements with a majority of 300. Phillip Hammond is a natural ally for her and will fund it.

 

[D365]

The trouble with a Class 395 derivative with 800 bi-mode capability would be whether they could integrate the diesel power packs into coaches 3-6m shorter than on the 80x. I assume clearing 26m 800s to Hastings may be difficult, if at all possible.

 

[paul1609]

The trouble with a Class 395 derivative with 800 bi-mode capability would be whether they could integrate the diesel power packs into coaches 3-6m shorter than on the 80x. I assume clearing 26m 800s to Hastings may be difficult, if at all possible.

I can't see why it would be difficult, the Marshlink class 171s are already 23.62 metres long and the formation is a formerly 85 mph double main line. If you wanted to electrify the line I would suggest that you could probably stretch the power supplies from the underused HS1 to Hastings requiring only the overheads.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Yes, but the design could be better if the pressure released before the train came to a halt - then the door opening could be immediate.

You are correct but to allow this to happen would require an on-board system to allow the train to distinguish between station stops and signal stops. I also suspect that any system that would require the driver to commence the door opening process while the train is still in motion would not pass a risk assessment short of many "belts and braces" being added to the system or more likely full automation of the door opening process (yikes!). Would the few seconds saved at each stop merit the expense of providing the desired modification? It's an interesting question!

 

[D365]

I can't see why it would be difficult, the Marshlink class 171s are already 23.62 metres long and the formation is a formerly 85 mph double main line. If you wanted to electrify the line I would suggest that you could probably stretch the power supplies from the underused HS1 to Hastings requiring only the overheads.

Civils are the major cost of any overhead electrification scheme. HS1 equipment is likely to be highly specialised and not compatible with ‘classic’ infrastructure.

 

[Intercity Exec]

You are correct but to allow this to happen would require an on-board system to allow the train to distinguish between station stops and signal stops. I also suspect that any system that would require the driver to commence the door opening process while the train is still in motion would not pass a risk assessment short of many "belts and braces" being added to the system or more likely full automation of the door opening process (yikes!). Would the few seconds saved at each stop merit the expense of providing the desired modification? It's an interesting question!

I don't know the door system of a class 395, but it is of a pocket sliding type. The system you speak of is already in use on class 22x units in that the slow speed relay, when activated, releases the air from a door seal around the outside of the door (I note that this door type is a sliding plug type) thus when the train slows nearly to a stop the seal releases from the door, yet the door remains locked closed. Therefore, if the class 395 door system has separate door locking and sealing systems this could be easily modified by wiring a door seal release into the slow speed relay. If someone else knows the full door systems of the class 395 maybe they could kindly confirm if this would be possible. It is possible to see this happen on a Voyager, a visible gap can be seen between the door and its frame when a door is closed and the train is at a stand and when it moves off you hear the system charge and see the gap close. The reverse happens whilst slowing to a stop. However, I do not see that this is really a problem, especially considering the fact that most trains now have a delay timer built into their door systems to prevent immediate release when the command has been given. Doors are being deliberately slowed down.

 

[talldave]

The application of the seal on 395s appears to be speed related, as the seal kicks in as the train moves off.

As a techie I appreciate that it would be complex to modify for a quicker door release, but the data is available ("we are now approaching...."), it just needs integrating.

The problem with the current implementation is that unfamiliar passengers don't understand why pressing the door button appears to do nothing and often results in frenzied button stabbing and looks of panic, until the door starts to open.