Class 43 disposals

[1Q18]

.... So there is paperwork rather than just leaves on the track, so to speak.

As a railway photographer I use RTT to track the progress and expected time of arrival of trains at my chosen location spots and recently I have noticed some fairly wide fluctuations between early and late passing times.

Out of interest, apart from availability what are the factors which influence whether Class43 or 37 propel a Test Train?

The four PLPR sets (which record at up to 100mph, and usually run with a 1Qxx or 1Zxx headcode) will generally run with 43s if there is a pair available and if it’s one of the circuits which is route-cleared for 43s throughout, otherwise it’s top and tail 37s unless Colas are really struggling in which case it might be one 37 and a DBSO. On the Southern Region circuits, GBRf class 73/9s on hire to Colas are used, unless none are available in which case 37s may be used. The five UTU sets (Ultrasonic Test Unit, record at 30mph/transit at 75mph, usually a 3Qxx or 3Zxx headcode) virtually always run with one 37 and a DBSO. Of course the NMT always runs with 43s, and these will currently be Colas ones because none of the Network Rail 43s designated for the NMT are operational.

It's not to do with the traction/brake interlock (with the sliding door trailers) that the ex-XC power cars have, is it?

Not as far as I’m aware.

 

[Robin Procter]

For the moment I wouldn’t expect anything more than Colas logos on the base XC livery. The amount of recording shifts getting lost due to traction issues at the moment is crazy so just getting them working will be the priority.

.... Having now re-acquainted myself with the original XC livery on one of my own photographs, I take back my comment earlier about thinking that a Colas Rail diamond-shaped logo would not look good applied to the power car. As a 'retired-but-hardwired' professional graphic designer specialising in corporate identity I really should have checked at my time of posting!

I am now of the opinion that the added Colas Rail logo would look good and all that would need to be done is to peel off the CrossCountry logotype on the lower silver painted area (see my photo below). Personally I would enjoy seeing some of the Colas Rail operated Class43s pay homage to their previous operator's service through their liveries. Many railway enthusiasts like to see variety and some passengers may also enjoy it when they are not glued to their mobile phones!

Pictured in 2022 is 43 301, the very first HST Power Car to be operated by CrossCountry in 2008. I don't know what her fate has been and whether she is now part of the Colas Rail fleet or not.

HST WORKING CROSS COUNTRY SINCE 2008 by Robin Procter, on Flickr

 

[43096]

.... Having now re-acquainted myself with the original XC livery on one of my own photographs, I take back my comment earlier about thinking that a Colas Rail diamond-shaped logo would not look good applied to the power car. As a 'retired-but-hardwired' professional graphic designer specialising in corporate identity I really should have checked at my time of posting!

I am now of the opinion that the added Colas Rail logo would look good and all that would need to be done is to peel off the CrossCountry logotype on the lower silver painted area (see my photo below). Personally I would enjoy seeing some of the Colas Rail operated Class43s pay homage to their previous operator's service through their liveries. Many railway enthusiasts like to see variety and some passengers may also enjoy it when they are not glued to their mobile phones!

Pictured in 2022 is 43 301, the very first HST Power Car to be operated by CrossCountry in 2008. I don't know what her fate has been and whether she is now part of the Colas Rail fleet or not.

HST WORKING CROSS COUNTRY SINCE 2008 by Robin Procter, on Flickr

43301 is now part of the Colas fleet. It might have been the first to receive the XC livery, but was definitely not the first to be operated by the Arriva XC organisation: 43007/104/166/178/184 all worked for XC in MML livery before they went through Brush for re-power.

 

[Robin Procter]

43301 is now part of the Colas fleet. It might have been the first to receive the XC livery, but was definitely not the first to be operated by the Arriva XC organisation: 43007/104/166/178/184 all worked for XC in MML livery before they went through Brush for re-power.

.... Thankyou for the correction - Much appreciated. I will leave my post #542 as it is so that the thread of this discussion continues to make sense but I will revise to correct my Flickr page accordingly.

I am impressed by how much knowledge there is in the RailUK Forums! I am thinking that most of you either work or have worked for the railways.

 

[D365]

What mechanical/electrical modifications are required to convert test trains from Class 37 to Class 43 haulage?

 

[Nym]

What mechanical/electrical modifications are required to convert test trains from Class 37 to Class 43 haulage?

None.
The 43s are converted to "27" wire interface so all the mods are done at the loco end.

ETS Isn't used as they all have their own generators.

 

[1Q18]

What mechanical/electrical modifications are required to convert test trains from Class 37 to Class 43 haulage?

The various loco-hauled infrastructure monitoring trains have through multiple working through-wiring for 27-way ('Blue Star') which is used with the class 37s/97s, and AAR which is used for the class 73/9s, and previously (and maybe again in the future) class 67s. The class 43s use adapter jumper cables to connect via the 27-way bus. Conventional HST multiple working jumpers are used with the NMT formation. As an aside, the Mk2 DBSO vehicles aren't compatible with the class 43s, only 37s/97s.

 

[43096]

None.
The 43s are converted to "27" wire interface so all the mods are done at the loco end.

It’s done via an adapter cable to the 27-way, no modifications to the power cars are needed.

ETS Isn't used as they all have their own generators.

ETS has to run on both power cars to provide the auxiliaries such as battery charging.

 

[trainswitheddy]

There was talk of a reason LNER powercars weren't being preserved, has this been revealed yet? I understand the original idea was condition of powercars but with HSTs moving from Ely to preservation group having been there since before LNERs were stood down is there another reason none have been preserved? (Aside from 43102)

 

[D365]

The various loco-hauled infrastructure monitoring trains have through multiple working through-wiring for 27-way ('Blue Star') which is used with the class 37s/97s, and AAR which is used for the class 73/9s, and previously (and maybe again in the future) class 67s. The class 43s use adapter jumper cables to connect via the 27-way bus. Conventional HST multiple working jumpers are used with the NMT formation. As an aside, the Mk2 DBSO vehicles aren't compatible with the class 43s, only 37s/97s.

Indeed; there can't be any appetite to modify the DBSOs yet again!

It’s done via an adapter cable to the 27-way, no modifications to the power cars are needed.

ETS has to run on both power cars to provide the auxiliaries such as battery charging.

Do you mean the locomotive aux battery, or batteries on the test trains? As aside from than the /4 subclass, none of the Class 37s have ETH (electric train heat) equipment.

 

[43096]

Do you mean the locomotive aux battery, or batteries on the test trains? As aside from than the /4 subclass, none of the Class 37s have ETH (electric train heat) equipment.

On the power cars.

 

[Wyrleybart]

There was talk of a reason LNER powercars weren't being preserved, has this been revealed yet? I understand the original idea was condition of powercars but with HSTs moving from Ely to preservation group having been there since before LNERs were stood down is there another reason none have been preserved? (Aside from 43102)

AFAIK all the XC and LNER power cars were retrofitted with MTU power units and an upgrade of the electronics, cabs etc etc. The GWR ones all also received the MTU engines but the cabs were not refurbished. All of the MTU engined power cars had to have a contract arrangement with MTU, where cold starts etc took hours off the power unit. The VP185 engined power cars on the other hand were not "encumbered" by such a contract.

So AIUI, although there MTU engined power cars "preserved", there are not so many and IIRC one of the ex GW or FGW power cars is planned to receive a Valenta in place of the MTU. Whilst this does not answer your question, I think it provides some thought.

 

[43096]

AFAIK all the XC and LNER power cars were retrofitted with MTU power units and an upgrade of the electronics, cabs etc etc. The GWR ones all also received the MTU engines but the cabs were not refurbished.

All the power car cabs got upgrades, which included new seats and new cab desk instrumentation/controls. The FGW fleet was different in that they got new Voith cooler groups (everyone else used Brush coolers) and didn’t get the electronics upgrade.

All of the MTU engined power cars had to have a contract arrangement with MTU, where cold starts etc took hours off the power unit. The VP185 engined power cars on the other hand were not "encumbered" by such a contract.

The VP185 engines did have support contracts with MAN/Paxman but there wasn’t the cold start penalty.

So AIUI, although there MTU engined power cars "preserved", there are not so many and IIRC one of the ex GW or FGW power cars is planned to receive a Valenta in place of the MTU.

Incorrect again. It will be a VP185 engined power car that gets a Valenta back.

 

[Wyrleybart]

All the power car cabs got upgrades, which included new seats and new cab desk instrumentation/controls. The FGW fleet was different in that they got new Voith cooler groups (everyone else used Brush coolers) and didn’t get the electronics upgrade.

Thanks. I was under the impression the FGW/GWR power cars didn't really get much in the way of cab fettling. That has corrected my view.

The VP185 engines did have support contracts with MAN/Paxman but there wasn’t the cold start penalty.

aha. Make sense

Incorrect again. It will be a VP185 engined power car that gets a Valenta back.

Thanks for all of that "43096". Is that because it is easier to "back engineer" a VP185 powered power car to accommodate a Valenta power unit ?

 

[43096]

Is that because it is easier to "back engineer" a VP185 powered power car to accommodate a Valenta power unit ?

Yes - the engine and alternator mounting points are very similar/identical between VP185 and Valenta. The MTU is a bit longer than the Valenta (being V16 rather than V12) so the alternator sits further forward and the mounting points are different.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Yes - the engine and alternator mounting points are very similar/identical between VP185 and Valenta. The MTU is a bit longer than the Valenta (being V16 rather than V12) so the alternator sits further forward and the mounting points are different.

Thanks. Thats makes perfect sense. Suggests that de MTUing "preserved" power cars is not so likely then.

 

[43096]

Thanks. Thats makes perfect sense. Suggests that de MTUing "preserved" power cars is not so likely then.

Realistically there is only one group that has the capability to return a power car to Valenta engine. 125 Group had the foresight when the conversion programme was going on to acquire engines and cooler groups to allow a power car to return to Valenta power.

 

[trainswitheddy]

RailAdventure HSTs hauled ex LNER/EMR 43316/320/306/307 all taken up to Leicester LIP this evening. I've heard rumours that they're going to the SVR before going to Mexico, any confirmation of this? Seems I spoke to soon about LNER powercars being too little too late...

 

[The_Train]

RailAdventure HSTs hauled ex LNER/EMR 43316/320/306/307 all taken up to Leicester LIP this evening. I've heard rumours that they're going to the SVR before going to Mexico, any confirmation of this? Seems I spoke to soon about LNER powercars being too little too late...

I believe Mexico is there intended destination but no idea what is planned for them in the UK before they go

 

[trainswitheddy]

I believe Mexico is there intended destination but no idea what is planned for them in the UK before they go

Apparently Leicester for reactivation, something at the SVR and then export? I heard another person mention they were fitting buffers and being taken to RailAdventure but I'd be very surprised...

 

[43096]

Apparently Leicester for reactivation

That seems unlikely, as they leave Leicester at the weekend.

 

[ExRes]

Apparently Leicester for reactivation, something at the SVR and then export? I heard another person mention they were fitting buffers and being taken to RailAdventure but I'd be very surprised...

RailAdventure already have 43423 & 43467 which have been undergoing an extremely slow return to service at Eastleigh, it would be an eye opener if they were considering more power cars

 

[trainswitheddy]

RailAdventure already have 43423 & 43467 which have been undergoing an extremely slow return to service at Eastleigh, it would be an eye opener if they were considering more power cars

Yes, regardless hopefully more are saved from the scrap heap. I wonder what the condition of the rest of the stock at Ely is?

 

[43102EMR]

RailAdventure already have 43423 & 43467 which have been undergoing an extremely slow return to service at Eastleigh, it would be an eye opener if they were considering more power cars

Last I saw they were still in the paintshop at Eastleigh rubbed down and with the new headlights fitted - as for when they come out, it’s anyone’s guess…

 

[Wyrleybart]

Apparently Leicester for reactivation, something at the SVR and then export? I heard another person mention they were fitting buffers and being taken to RailAdventure but I'd be very surprised...

Wonder if they are fitting door interlock controls on the SVR, as they will need it if working with the "sliders" in Mexico

 

[Magdalia]

Think half the GW fleet are now en route from Great Yarmouth to Mexico !

Some are sailing from Yarmouth today, see BBC story here:

Retired train carriages set sail for new life abroad

A shipment of carriages leaves Great Yarmouth port bound for reuse in Africa and Central America.

www.bbc.co.uk

Shipments of retired UK trains are poised to set sail from Great Yarmouth for Africa and Central America where they will return to passenger service.

Train enthusiasts gathered to see the InterCity 125 cars and carriages taken through the town with a police escort and loaded at the Norfolk port.

 

[1Q18]

---

43285 at Derby RTC has now received it’s Colas branding, seen today.

 

[trainswitheddy]

---

43285 at Derby RTC has now received it’s Colas branding, seen today.

I see it's coupled to one of the NMT Mk3s, any chance of it being on that anytime soon?

Wonder if they are fitting door interlock controls on the SVR, as they will need it if working with the "sliders" in Mexico

Probably. Glad to see some of the LNER lot getting a new lease of life.

 

[1Q18]

I see it's coupled to one of the NMT Mk3s, any chance of it being on that anytime soon?

It was coupled up to the spare NMT Mk3 and 43013, I guess possibly for a test run of some kind but it's just as if not more likely merely for ease of shunting round the yard.

 

[trainswitheddy]

It was coupled up to the spare NMT Mk3 and 43013, I guess possibly for a test run of some kind but it's just as if not more likely merely for ease of shunting round the yard.

Ah, very well then. Will be eagerly awaiting their entry to service.