Class 442 the future.

[Class172]

What you would need on a 442 to work it this way is bigger batteries, and batteries on each car. SR EMU have little batteries and no on every car.

It would make sense to put the bulk of extra equipment in the centre carriage, since in a hypothetical push-pull situation, the drive motor can be removed?

 

[MrC]

Regarding 442s as a possible loco-hauled rake, do they have the ability for their electrics (ie lighting/heating) to be powered from the locomotive, and also can the driving trailer at the other end control the locomotive à la mk2 DBSO - would these require rewiring of the system?

You can't use a 442 coach as straight-forward loco hauled for a few reasons, some already stated.

1. HVAC and control are powered off an aux convertor in the DTF only. The remainder of the coaches are powered off this convertor and some of the supplies are AC (eg air-con). The DTF is the only coach equipped with batteries (I think). They're very non-standard and while they could be converted you're talking £££s (especially as subsequent strip-downs have shown differences between 442 units)
2. The DTF convertors were designed to be able to take a feed off an ETH loco but this never worked and all the jumpers were physically removed when on SWT.
3. 442s are SR EP braked with a triple valve auto brake - they aren't distributor equipped. The EP brake won't work with the vast majority of locos and can't be used as an auto brake anyway. I'm not sure any sane TOC would want to run large amounts of triple valve equipped only coaches on high speed passenger services. Again they could probably be fitted with distributors but that just adds to the £££s

 

[SpacePhoenix]

You can't use a 442 coach as straight-forward loco hauled for a few reasons, some already stated.

1. HVAC and control are powered off an aux convertor in the DTF only. The remainder of the coaches are powered off this convertor and some of the supplies are AC (eg air-con). The DTF is the only coach equipped with batteries (I think). They're very non-standard and while they could be converted you're talking £££s (especially as subsequent strip-downs have shown differences between 442 units)
2. The DTF convertors were designed to be able to take a feed off an ETH loco but this never worked and all the jumpers were physically removed when on SWT.
3. 442s are SR EP braked with a triple valve auto brake - they aren't distributor equipped. The EP brake won't work with the vast majority of locos and can't be used as an auto brake anyway. I'm not sure any sane TOC would want to run large amounts of triple valve equipped only coaches on high speed passenger services. Again they could probably be fitted with distributors but that just adds to the £££s

Well with that option ruled out on cost, it's R.I.P. Class 442s.

 

[Techniquest]

I'm sure Booths will be happy with the extra work they'll provide...

 

[Rick1984]

replace the 313's on Coastway with 442's. Then send 313's to Merseyrail. Simple.

 

[TheGrew]

Wouldn't the regular stopping coastway services completely knacker the already old traction packages. You would no doubt give the local fire teams more work to do

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[47802]

replace the 313's on Coastway with 442's. Then send 313's to Merseyrail. Simple.

And why would you want to do that, I imagine 313's would be more cost effective, and apart from the lack of Toilet more suitable as well.

 

[deltic08]

Would a contract for 110 new motors including spares, be that uneconomical for a life extension of 10-15 years? Could they be converted to AC/115mph and used on Liverpool-Newcastle, possibly extended to Edinburgh and Manchester-Edinburgh/Glasgow services.

 

[Goatboy]

The 442 is an excellent regional express EMU. It is quiet, it is (or was before they ruined it) comfortable and it's an excellent place to be for a 1-2 hour journey to the capital. For Weymouth to Waterloo there is simply no train on the network better suited than a properly refurbished Class 442.

Unfortunately, the list of routes for which they are well suited starts and ends with the single line they were designed for - Weymouth to Waterloo. If there is no way for them to go back onto the Weymouth to Waterloo services then as outstanding as they are and as much of a shame it will be, there is only one place for them and that's the history books.

It's a shame as we seem to have forgotten how to build a decent regional express unit since the 442, 158 and 159. Everything since has been less well suited to regional express work, especially with the obsession with 2/3 doors.

 

[nowananorack]

The 442 is an excellent regional express EMU. It is quiet, it is (or was before they ruined it) comfortable and it's an excellent place to be for a 1-2 hour journey to the capital. For Weymouth to Waterloo there is simply no train on the network better suited than a properly refurbished Class 442.

Unfortunately, the list of routes for which they are well suited starts and ends with the single line they were designed for - Weymouth to Waterloo. If there is no way for them to go back onto the Weymouth to Waterloo services then as outstanding as they are and as much of a shame it will be, there is only one place for them and that's the history books.

It's a shame as we seem to have forgotten how to build a decent regional express unit since the 442, 158 and 159. Everything since has been less well suited to regional express work, especially with the obsession with 2/3 doors.

Class 444, though a Desiro, is similar to the 442.
Neither have sufficient traction power for the Portsmouth - Waterloo via Guilford route.
Both have(had) a "servery" which I never saw used on the 444 when I was a regular user.
Not enough of either were built.
442's should have had their electrics upgraded whilst they were sitting unused in Eastleigh.
Sadly, the end is nigh for the 442's, unless someone is prepared to put in enough money to upgrade the electrics and for SWT to take them back to where they were designed forad:ad:

 

[cjmillsnun]

Class 444, though a Desiro, is similar to the 442.
Neither have sufficient traction power for the Portsmouth - Waterloo via Guilford route.

Are you having a laugh??? The 444s were absolutely fine on the Pompey direct, as were the 442s. Both were fully able to keep time with the other units on the route.

 

[NSEFAN]

Were the 444s not replaced with 450s on the Pompey direct to increase the number of carriages/seats? I doubt that putting them back on the route would be a popular move, at least not with control! Passengers on the other hand might welcome the change.

 

[Goldfish62]

Were the 444s not replaced with 450s on the Pompey direct to increase the number of carriages/seats? I doubt that putting them back on the route would be a popular move, at least not with control! Passengers on the other hand might welcome the change.

It would be extremely popular. The Pompey line commuters complain about nothing but replacement of the 444s with 450s.

 

[cjmillsnun]

It would be extremely popular. The Pompey line commuters complain about nothing but replacement of the 444s with 450s.

Not really a surprise. The 3+2 seating arrangement doesn't work. You have to be extremely small to fit completely within one of those seats.

 

[TEW]

Were the 444s not replaced with 450s on the Pompey direct to increase the number of carriages/seats? I doubt that putting them back on the route would be a popular move, at least not with control! Passengers on the other hand might welcome the change.

It's not as if they've really been replaced anyway. It's a fairly even mix of 450s and 444s at the moment. Despite how much SWT say the use of 450s increases seats, and it is a requirement under their franchise agreement, everyone knows that in reality the 3+2 seating on the 450s is never used fully. The 444s are perfectly comfortable even if all seats are taken, which isn't something that can be said for the 450s. 444s also allow more standing room as with the slightly wider gangways standing in the aisles is much easier.

 

[samuelmorris]

Class 444, though a Desiro, is similar to the 442.
Neither have sufficient traction power for the Portsmouth - Waterloo via Guilford route.

I can't believe that - the 444s are set to something like 70% of their maximum power setting due to available section power are they not?

 

[route:oxford]

Ok this is a bit of a theoretical question, but here goes...

If the engines of a class 156 could be upgraded to a model similar to that in the class 172...

Could a Class 442 car be rebuilt as an (unpowered non-aircon) 156 centre car?

 

[jopsuk]

Not at a price that would make any sense

 

[Shrub Hill]

if there is still life in them and if the leasing companies offer them out at a ridiculously low rental cost someone will find room for them!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

if there is still life in them and if the leasing companies offer them out at a ridiculously low rental cost someone will find room for them!

There's no life left in them without expensive work being done, the traction motors are on borrowed time

 

[Stats]

If Porterbrook are willing to replace the traction equipment on the 319s, which their brochure suggests they are, then why wouldn't somebody fork out to replace the traction equipment on the 442s?

 

[jrhilton]

If Porterbrook are willing to replace the traction equipment on the 319s, which their brochure suggests they are, then why wouldn't somebody fork out to replace the traction equipment on the 442s?

Probably because 319s can be used on lots of different routes, where as the 442s are only suited to long non-stop routes which there are few in 3rd rail land. And I would argue on the routes 442s are suited for, class 444s are a better unit overall anyway.

 

[AM9]

Probably because 319s can be used on lots of different routes, where as the 442s are only suited to long non-stop routes which there are few in 3rd rail land. And I would argue on the routes 442s are suited for, class 444s are a better unit overall anyway.

I seem to remember many years ago a statement from somebody high up on the old Southern Region tree answering a criticism about shabby EMUs that went like this:
'The problem with EMUs is that the EE507 based traction equipment life is much longer than the bodies. You just replace contactors and rebuild the motors and they carry on for another 10 (or 20?) years. Meanwhile, the bodies just get shabbier and are seen to represent the overall suitability of what is often reliable stock'.
The MKIII body shells don't let the 442s down yet so in passenger terms they are OK trains. So surely, the 400HP electro-diesel DC motors could be rewound, re-bearinged, the commutators refurbed etc. as part of a heavy maintenance schedule.

 

[NLC1072]

Take the traction motors off and use them with the 90's on the London to Norwich runs, instant chilternised doors!

 

[jopsuk]

Except not, as the doors are a bit narrow.

 

[TEW]

So narrow that most wheelchairs will only fit through the slam door giving access to the guards compartment. Hardly the nicest way to travel for anyone in a wheelchair. Southern also have notes in their timetable advising that services worked by 442s are completely unable to carry larger wheelchairs or scooters.

 

[GodAtum]

444s also have nicer 1st class seating.

 

[cjmillsnun]

444s also have nicer 1st class seating.

They do now. Sadly the GatEx conversion ruined the Wessies.

 

[antharro]

They do now. Sadly the GatEx conversion ruined the Wessies.

Hear hear. They had a fantastic first class. Even standard class was surprisingly comfortable. The GatEx conversion significantly downgraded the interiors, in my opinion. (The exception being the disabled toilet which I thought was nicely done).

I would love to see them back on Weymouth fasts, with 450s on slows and 444s back on Portsmouth fasts. But I suspect that sadly, they will be scrapped.

 

[southern442]

Hear hear. They had a fantastic first class. Even standard class was surprisingly comfortable. The GatEx conversion significantly downgraded the interiors, in my opinion. (The exception being the disabled toilet which I thought was nicely done).

I would love to see them back on Weymouth fasts, with 450s on slows and 444s back on Portsmouth fasts. But I suspect that sadly, they will be scrapped.

Being very ambitious here, but what about refurbishing them back to Wessex-style and use them on an hourly limited stop Charing X-Waterloo East-London Bridge-(Orpington)-Sevenoaks-Tonbridge-Paddock Wood-Headcorn-Ashford-Folkestone West-Central-Dover service? Stops at London Bridge, Orpington, Paddock Wood and Headcorn could be omitted in peak hours.