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Class 458/5

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swt_passenger

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Bigfoot

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No test running today, nor did it run at all last week. I'd guess that it's in service, just need an overly keen spotter..
 

causton

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Or someone with access to TRUST to see what it is doing ;)

Hello!

Unit: 458516

No allocations found


However this is not TRUST, it is Genius, which sometimes does not report trains very far in the future (i.e. late tonight) or if they are coupled to other trains may only 'see' one of the multiple. So not a 100% no, but most others are comign up with results so pretty sure!
 
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Have there been changes to the 458/5 diagrams with the change in timetable?

I only ask because I thought that the 1707 Waterloo - Hounslow loop and 1843 to Shepperton were booked for a pair of 458/5 but this evenings SWT Train Formation Updates implies that these trains are now normally booked 8 coaches, so a pair of 450 or 455. The comment about lack of toilets suggests that they would normally be present, so booked 2*450? Whatever these trains are now booked, a single 455 would appear to be tonight's chariot.

17:07 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:32 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8. Toilets are not available.
18:43 London Waterloo to Shepperton due 19:28 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8. Toilets are not available.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time. Last Updated :17/05/2016 16:11
 

HeelBurton

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Have there been changes to the 458/5 diagrams with the change in timetable?



I only ask because I thought that the 1707 Waterloo - Hounslow loop and 1843 to Shepperton were booked for a pair of 458/5 but this evenings SWT Train Formation Updates implies that these trains are now normally booked 8 coaches, so a pair of 450 or 455. The comment about lack of toilets suggests that they would normally be present, so booked 2*450? Whatever these trains are now booked, a single 455 would appear to be tonight's chariot.



17:07 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:32 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8. Toilets are not available.

18:43 London Waterloo to Shepperton due 19:28 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8. Toilets are not available.

This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time. Last Updated :17/05/2016 16:11



1707 and 1843 are booked 459 as I've just looked at the diagrams. Must be a unit unavailable.
 
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The 16:58 Waterloo to Windsor service seems to have changed from an 8 car 450 to a 5 car 458 which has resulted in a previously pleasently loaded service becoming regularly full and standing. Is this a permenant change as it does not appear in the list of formation changes.
 
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HeelBurton

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The 16:58 Waterloo to Windsor service seems to have changed from an 8 car 450 to a 5 car 458 which has resulted in a previously pleasently loaded service becoming regularly full and standing. Is this a permenant change as it does not appear in the list of formation changes.



Might be a 458 short because there's a 5 car in Clapham yard which is not usually there it's been there for two days as myself and another instructor/assessor have used it instead of going to wimbledon. Probably a unit problem.
 
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Might be a 458 short because there's a 5 car in Clapham yard which is not usually there it's been there for two days as myself and another instructor/assessor have used it instead of going to wimbledon. Probably a unit problem.

I was hoping it would normaly be a 10 car formation but then I would have expected the 5 car to show up in formation changes and my disruption e-mail
 
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The 1658 Windsor doesn't show up in the Train Formation Updates for tonight, but plenty of other 458/5 trains do (two units short?).

16:45 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:11 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
18:22 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 19:40 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
20:05 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 21:26 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
21:53 London Waterloo to Alton due 23:11 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
23:15 Alton to Woking due 23:51 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
00:41 Woking to Farnham due 01:05 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

17:15 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:41 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
18:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 20:10 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
20:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 21:56 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
 
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The 1658 Windsor doesn't show up in the Train Formation Updates for tonight, but plenty of other 458/5 trains do (two units short?).

16:45 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:11 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
18:22 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 19:40 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
20:05 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 21:26 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
21:53 London Waterloo to Alton due 23:11 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
23:15 Alton to Woking due 23:51 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
00:41 Woking to Farnham due 01:05 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

17:15 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:41 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
18:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 20:10 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
20:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 21:56 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

Exactly, and it was once again formed of 5 coaches, does this mean we will be packed in until the next timetable change?
 

HeelBurton

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Exactly, and it was once again formed of 5 coaches, does this mean we will be packed in until the next timetable change?



Having a quick look, I just used and prepared the 458/5 that sits in Clapham during the day, this forms 5U41 which leaves Clapham at 1356 and is booked to arrive at Waterloo at 14:13. I don't know what it then works but 2U41 is the 1428 Waterloo to Windsor which then forms the 1658 Waterloo to Windsor? So whether there's an attachment to be made at Waterloo To make this a Ten Car I'm not 100% sure, maybe the train ID's are just coincidental.
 
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Having a quick look, I just used and prepared the 458/5 that sits in Clapham during the day, this forms 5U41 which leaves Clapham at 1356 and is booked to arrive at Waterloo at 14:13. I don't know what it then works but 2U41 is the 1428 Waterloo to Windsor which then forms the 1658 Waterloo to Windsor? So whether there's an attachment to be made at Waterloo To make this a Ten Car I'm not 100% sure, maybe the train ID's are just coincidental.

Taking a look at RTT and 5U41 and 2U41 both use platform 16 so it would appear to be the same set. On the natural 2.5 hour cycle of the Windsors the 1428 should do 1658. The only way it seems to me that the 1428 could attach to another set is if the 1407 Waterloo - Waterloo leaves a set behind on the blocks (also platform 16). If it doesn't and the 1428/1658 to Windsor is a 5-car then it would imply that this turn is booked 5-car because again there are no Windsor trains on the Train Formation Updates (at least SWT are consistent in this regard). But the same as last night, there are still another two 458/5 diagrams short formed

16:37 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:02 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
18:15 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 19:41 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

16:45 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:11 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

Unless there are other trains booked to run with more 458/5 than there used to be, then that looks like only 29 out of the 35 units are available for service (I presume 458501 is still Testing, so doesn't count as part of the fleet yet)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I thought that the 1707 Waterloo - Hounslow loop and 1843 to Shepperton were booked for a pair of 458/5 but this evenings SWT Train Formation Updates implies that these trains are now normally booked 8 coaches, so a pair of 450 or 455. The comment about lack of toilets suggests that they would normally be present, so booked 2*450?

At least tonight SWT do show the 1707/1843 booked for 10 coaches, even if they have failed to achieve that number.

17:07 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:32 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
18:43 London Waterloo to Shepperton due 19:28 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

One of the Windsor diagrams is shown as 5 vice 10, but not the diagram that includes the 1658. I wonder if one of the Weybridge diagrams that used to be 5 cars in the peak is now 10? (eg 1622 or 1652).

12:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 13:19 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
13:28 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 14:22 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
14:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 15:49 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
15:58 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 16:52 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
17:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 18:19 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
18:28 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 19:23 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
19:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 20:49 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
20:58 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 21:52 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
22:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 23:19 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
 

RobShipway

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Taking a look at RTT and 5U41 and 2U41 both use platform 16 so it would appear to be the same set. On the natural 2.5 hour cycle of the Windsors the 1428 should do 1658. The only way it seems to me that the 1428 could attach to another set is if the 1407 Waterloo - Waterloo leaves a set behind on the blocks (also platform 16). If it doesn't and the 1428/1658 to Windsor is a 5-car then it would imply that this turn is booked 5-car because again there are no Windsor trains on the Train Formation Updates (at least SWT are consistent in this regard). But the same as last night, there are still another two 458/5 diagrams short formed

16:37 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:02 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
18:15 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 19:41 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

16:45 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:11 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

Unless there are other trains booked to run with more 458/5 than there used to be, then that looks like only 29 out of the 35 units are available for service (I presume 458501 is still Testing, so doesn't count as part of the fleet yet)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


At least tonight SWT do show the 1707/1843 booked for 10 coaches, even if they have failed to achieve that number.

17:07 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:32 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
18:43 London Waterloo to Shepperton due 19:28 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

One of the Windsor diagrams is shown as 5 vice 10, but not the diagram that includes the 1658. I wonder if one of the Weybridge diagrams that used to be 5 cars in the peak is now 10? (eg 1622 or 1652).

12:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 13:19 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
13:28 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 14:22 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
14:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 15:49 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
15:58 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 16:52 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
17:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 18:19 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
18:28 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 19:23 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
19:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 20:49 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
20:58 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 21:52 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.
22:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 23:19 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

There probably is not a class 450 spare, but since the class 458/5 are now mechanically compatible with the Class 450 sets, could you not add a 4 car class 450 to make a 9 car train?
 

HeelBurton

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There probably is not a class 450 spare, but since the class 458/5 are now mechanically compatible with the Class 450 sets, could you not add a 4 car class 450 to make a 9 car train?



Afraid not. The two trains cannot communicate to each other so you can only couple the two up in emergency purposes and restrictive speeds apply.
 

RobShipway

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Afraid not. The two trains cannot communicate to each other so you can only couple the two up in emergency purposes and restrictive speeds apply.

That is what I thought would be the case, otherwise I suspect that the coupling of a 458/5 to a class 450 would have already been done....;)
 

Peter Mugridge

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458 521 was at Basingstoke yesterday.

Saw it from on board the 15.21 Salisbury - Waterloo if anyone wants to work out the time.
 
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458 521 was at Basingstoke yesterday.

Saw it from on board the 15.21 Salisbury - Waterloo if anyone wants to work out the time.

Perhaps this ECS from Bournemouth Depot to Wimbledon?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W96340/2016/05/23/advanced

It appears that the 458/5 fleet desperately needs a boost. It seems that today is no different from every other day with insufficient serviceable units to meet their requirements. 0728, 0958, 1228 etc Waterloo - Windsor 5 coaches instead of 10 and 0652 Waterloo - Weybridge cancelled due to a train fault
 
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I am not sure. It may be related to the number of units requiring C4 bogie overhauls but if that was the case then this is known about in advance and so a contingency plan enacted? e.g retaining the pair of 450 that were working a Windsor diagram until 10 days ago, or failing that advising of certain trains that will be short formed for however long this may last for. I know SWT advertise which trains are short formations on the day and it is not so bad coming home from work when you can change your plans to use a different train, but in the morning many people are creatures of habit and turn up at the station for the same train, only to suddenly find that today it has 5 coaches instead of 10. The fact that there is no publicly available contingency plan suggests that it is due to on the day faults and not C4 bogie overhauls, or possibly a combination of the two?
 

theblackwatch

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Does anyone know if 458501 has reappeared in service yet? please It's a few weeks since its coaches returned to Wombledon.
 
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