Class 465 and 466 set for storage/scrap: possible uses for them in future?

[The_Train]

I notice looking at that link that the Beckenham units are still labelled as being in that siding, even though they moved on a long time ago now, and from a personal perspective I've seen 466006 in active service since then.

Unfortunately, I have no inside information with regards to these sort of moves so I am relying upon stumbling on the information in some way - like a response on here I will update accordingly today!

Has anyone got confirmation of 465247 & 465903 having returned to service since their stint at Beckenham please?

 

[typetwos]

37884 taking 465241 & 465244 on 5Q26 10:59 GLM EMUD to WORKSP UR 27/09/21

 

[brad465]

37884 taking 465241 & 465244 on 5Q26 10:59 GLM EMUD to WORKSP UR 27/09/21

Every time I see/hear a class 37 taking stock away for storage or scrap I do feel mildly amazed at how it's outlived whatever it's hauling for that purpose. This was particularly prolific when they took Mk3 coaches to scrap, as well as various EMUs like the 313s and 365s. It would not surprise me if they're still going when the Networkers are properly withdrawn if they do those runs as well.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

The plans from memory were for 465s, which if SE were prepared to release the Workshop units for Turbo extension they could in theory do that now for trialling at least. Presumably the power rating of the existing turbo engines would have to be increased and/or additional engines/batteries applied as Turbos have relatively poor acceleration as it is in their current formations.

I believe that will be the case .

 

[59CosG95]

WNXX reported this evening that 465242 & 465250 have also been stored at Gillingham pending a move to Worksop.

 

[brad465]

37884 taking 465241 & 465244 on 5Q26 10:59 GLM EMUD to WORKSP UR 27/09/21

Looks like all those who captured the first moves on video either weren't interested, unaware or unavailable to spot this one as I can't find any videos of them somewhere along that route.

 

[warwickshire]

Update further information
After observing the 365 move to booths masboro rotherham. Earlier at derby.
37884 around 15 minutes late.
From originally 80 minutes late leaving gillingham.
Was at worksop with only 465250 .
However for the information and records further.
465250 is at worksop as off Thursday 30 September 2021.
465242 which was meant to go did not.
Maybe a issue in moving this unit.
Hence the late start.
Unless its been kept.
Move was 1059 gillingham emu Depot to worksop up receptions.
Unsure off headcode.

 

[warwickshire]

Looks like all those who captured the first moves on video either weren't interested, unaware or unavailable to spot this one as I can't find any videos of them somewhere along that route.

Yes there is one by two local you tubers .
Video concerned is at retford station.
Both near enough identical to each other.
Apologies dont know how to paste it on here.
But you will find it on there under retford.
By going via 37884 at retford.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Unsure off headcode.

Yesterday's ran as 5Q26

 

[typetwos]

37884 taking 465247 on 5Q26 10:59 GLM EMUD to WORKSP UR 04/10/21

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The Chart Leacon work includes 2 phases (phase 1 just for TL service changes and stabling issues) and bidders for the last SE franchise ITT also had to propose plans for additional stabling (and maintenance), the 377 go back to GTR for maintenance for example.

Hence a time gap till new stabling capacity (in several locations) comes on line in the medium term but there is a capacity constraint in the short term

Went past a couple days ago and site is cleared but no evidence of any other site activity going although a set of sidings could be built in circa 6 months but clearly no rush in the current environment.

 

[3973EXL]

STP 11/10

Realtime Trains - FRGT 1059 Gillingham E.M.U.D. to Worksop Up Receptions

 

[brad465]

STP 11/10

Realtime Trains - FRGT 1059 Gillingham E.M.U.D. to Worksop Up Receptions

Any knowledge on what unit(s) will be going in this move?

 

[warwickshire]

Any knowledge on what unit(s) will be going in this move?

Possibly 465242 0r 465248.
Both should have gone
Hence previous two moves only one 465 has gone.
However stranger things can happen.
Only time and Monday will tell.

 

[Jturner98]

Is there any reason why it seems most of the 465/2 fleet seem to be going first?

 

[MatthewRead]

Because they have the older BREL traction package that's more expensive to maintain. The others have got Hitachi traction packages.

 

[59CosG95]

Is there any reason why it seems most of the 465/2 fleet seem to be going first?

Their sadly obsolete power electronics. Spare parts for the GTO 3-phase AC-drive motors are becoming harder and harder to find, and their electrical 'dirtiness' means that they can't really be sent to work elsewhere, as the interference from the motors affects a lot of signals/track circuits, more so than AC motors using the more modern IGBT technology.

This is also partly why the 365s, despite only being around ~25 years old, are already being sent to meet the oxyacetylene torches at Rotherham & Newport.

 

[Domh245]

Spare parts for the GTO 3-phase AC-drive motors are becoming harder and harder to find,
...
This is also partly why the 365s, despite only being around ~25 years old, are already being sent to meet the oxyacetylene torches at Rotherham & Newport.

If only there were some sort of way of taking advantage of these two facts!

Is the reason not also largely grounded in the comparative unreliability of the GTO equipment compared to the Hitachi refitted fleets

 

[D365]

If only there were some sort of way of taking advantage of these two facts!

Is the reason not also largely grounded in the comparative unreliability of the GTO equipment compared to the Hitachi refitted fleets

What do you mean? Angel Trains and Eversholt have, presumably, decided that there’s no business case to spend millions on retrofitting 90s-era units.

 

[Domh245]

What do you mean? Angel Trains and Eversholt have, presumably, decided that there’s no business case to spend millions on retrofitting 90s-era units.

I had assumed that the traction packs under the 365s and 465/2s are identical, and so if there was a desire to get spares for the 465s then parts could be recovered (for a suitable fee) from the 365s.

However, the fact that the GTO units are less reliable than the other fleets means that there's little point keeping them going (either sourcing spares or complete refit) when there's now a surplus of units

 

[urpert]

I had assumed that the traction packs under the 365s and 465/2s are identical, and so if there was a desire to get spares for the 465s then parts could be recovered (for a suitable fee) from the 365s.

However, the fact that the GTO units are less reliable than the other fleets means that there's little point keeping them going (either sourcing spares or complete refit) when there's now a surplus of units

The 465/2s (and 466s) were built by Met-Camm and are quite different from the other BREL Networker derivatives.

 

[Domh245]

The 465/2s (and 466s) were built by Met-Camm and are quite different from the other BREL Networker derivatives.

But both the 465/2 and 365s have GEC/Alstom traction equipment, do they not?

 

[brad465]

But both the 465/2 and 365s have GEC/Alstom traction equipment, do they not?

There must be differences somewhere, 365s can do 100mph (90mph when they were on 3rd rail) compared to a 465's 75mph, there are subtle differences in how they sound on start-up that also implies a difference somewhere, which will at least include the gearing.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They have different traction motors.

From the Combined Volume:

365s have four G354CX type rated at 157kW while 465/2 and /9 have four G342BY rated at 280kW.

The bogies are different as well; the 365s have P3-16 and T3-16 type ( I am guessing the P and T mean powered and trailing respectively ) from ABB whereas the 465/2 and /9 have BP62 and BT52 from SRP ( woever they are! )

 

[Mikey C]

Their sadly obsolete power electronics. Spare parts for the GTO 3-phase AC-drive motors are becoming harder and harder to find, and their electrical 'dirtiness' means that they can't really be sent to work elsewhere, as the interference from the motors affects a lot of signals/track circuits, more so than AC motors using the more modern IGBT technology.

This is also partly why the 365s, despite only being around ~25 years old, are already being sent to meet the oxyacetylene torches at Rotherham & Newport.

Doesn't the 1996 Tube Stock on the Jubilee Line have relatively similar equipment to that under the GEC powered Networkers?

 

[Milo T.K]

I thought its more about the VF drive equipment since I'm pretty sure the metcam 465s and 365s have the same

 

[3973EXL]

Reported elsewhere -

5Q26 37884 465242/248
Realtime Trains - 525Z 1059 Gillingham E.M.U.D. to Worksop Up Receptions

 

[typetwos]

37884 taking 465242+465248 on 5Q26 10:59 GLM EMUD to WORKSOP UR 11/10/21

 

[warwickshire]

37884 taking 465242+465248 on 5Q26 10:59 GLM EMUD to WORKSOP UR 11/10/21

Excellent guess ref my earlier post 242

 

[JammyJames08]

37884 taking 465242+465248 on 5Q26 10:59 GLM EMUD to WORKSOP UR 11/10/21

There’s a path from Worksop back to Gillingham tomorrow. Some 465s returning?

Realtime Trains - 581Z 0540 Worksop Up Receptions to Gillingham E.M.U.D.

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