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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Eastern?

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Geogregor

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Moderator Note - split from:

Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

Here is a list of the deliveries and testing info to date: 701002 delivered to Eastleigh on 10 June 2020; testing under way; returned to Worksop for completion on 10 November 2020 701004 delivered to Wimbledon on 30 June 2020 701005 delivered to Eastleigh on 20 July 2020; testing under way...
www.railforums.co.uk www.railforums.co.uk

Strange post from Southeastern boss...

x.com

twitter.com twitter.com

What is he hinting?
 
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OneTrackMinded

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JonathanH said:
Not if they just reformed the SWR ones.
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Why would SWR give them the 701s..? This is a large scale investment into the SWR network, part of the franchise commitment. They're not just going to move them over to SE because they want them

In other news, the rumour about the new services next week has turned out true, confirmed by SWR staff
 
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JonathanH

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OneTrackMinded said:
Why would SWR give them the 701s..? This is a large scale investment into the SWR network, part of the franchise commitment. They're not just going to move them over to SE because they want them
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Your question should be why would the DfT reallocate part of the SWR build of 701s to Southeastern. DfT (and Treasury) calls the shots, not SWR, they just run the trains.

There is no 'franchise commitment', there is a contract for SWR to provide a certain level of service specified by the DfT.
 
OneTrackMinded

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JonathanH said:
Your question should be why would the DfT reallocate part of the SWR build of 701s to Southeastern. DfT (and Treasury) calls the shots, not SWR, they just run the trains.

There is no 'franchise commitment', there is a contract for SWR to provide a certain level of service specified by the DfT.
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Nonetheless it would be a complete scandal. Delaying them for 4 years and then sending them off somewhere else.

SE MD has now confirmed it was just a comment about colours:

x.com

x.com x.com
 
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JonathanH

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OneTrackMinded said:
Nonetheless it would be a complete scandal. Delaying them for 4 years and then sending them off somewhere else.
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Logically, there are 60 10-car and 30 5-car trains for SWR, 750 vehicles, and, following withdrawals, about 80 4-car 455s, 125 4-car 465s and 35 2-car 466s to replace. The shortfall in 701s to replace both fleets isn't many units.

It would be an interesting bodge to reform these into 8-car units, then build a few more, and take out all the 455s, 465s and 466s across both operations, with the 458/4s at SWR and a few transferred 377s at Southeastern picking up the shortfall.

Even if that didn't happen, putting SWR's spare 701s at Southeastern might allow the Networker replacement to be specified as needing to be compatible and therefore restrict it to being built at Derby.

Minimises the size of any extra build at Derby while keeping it open and restricting the scope of the tender, then if a growth build is needed later when money is less tight, that can be a further extension of the build.

Speculative obviously, but you can't just award the Networker replacement contract to Derby without some legal way of restricting it.
 
43096

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JonathanH said:
Speculative obviously, but you can't just award the Networker replacement contract to Derby without some legal way of restricting it.
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You can if SWR have an option in the 701 contract for additional sets.
 
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CyrusWuff

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OneTrackMinded said:
Nonetheless it would be a complete scandal. Delaying them for 4 years and then sending them off somewhere else.

SE MD has now confirmed it was just a comment about colours:

x.com

x.com x.com
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If the MD's making a specific statement like that, I fully expect an announcement on Monday that Litchurch Lane has been "saved" by a contract to build Aventras for Southeastern.
 
PGAT

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brad465 said:
Yes this is why I used those two and not the other stations on that line, which also are max 8 car.

Southeastern need more trains that are 4/8/12 car, not 5/10.
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4/6 would be ideal since you can then also form 10 car trains
 
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hwl

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brad465 said:
*Cough cough* Herne Hill Brixton too short *Cough Cough*
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Herne Hill platform are currently 9.5car length, especially if you get rid of the requirement for the networker/455 DOO monitors (which is the big problem). SWR's ASDO system would address precision stopping requirements and any junction blocking issues for the 10th car. A number of the other platforms along the route are already 9+car length especially if platform monitors go.
 
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