Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[221101 Voyager]

Just shows that looks are personal opinions.

I think the 701s look great, certainly the best looking of the Aventras, and the livery looks really good on them.

I personally think 710s and 720s are quite nice. Where I am (Wolverton) 720s are common sight at the moment and they've grown on me they're my favourite Aventras.


When 701s enter service I wonder what the public will think of them? It'll probably be another ironing board 700 fiasco no doubt. Do 701s have the ironing boards or do they have something that's slightly better than sitting on a lump of concrete?

 

[DorkingMain]

701s are going to be DOO operated, right? I'd be suprised if not?


I think what makes the 701s hideous is the massive wiper and how it been just stuck on the front like an after thought. Also the horrid livery and squnity little headlights are awful too.

With a better livery and nice lights the 701 would be quite nice looking. The overall shape is quite good it's what is attached to it that's ugly imo.

the 701s will still run with a guard on board unless there has been a quiet shift in the goalposts since agreement was made with ASLEF

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Oct 2020 ==

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I'm not so sure that it is 'dead' - plenty of equipment in that space that would otherwise have to be moved elsewhere in the vehicle



Gaining a row of seats works in reverse though. If you maintained the standard door spacing and chose to use the longer style cab, you'd lose a row of seats. It does feel like the 5 cars are causing more trouble than they're worth, for the sake of a handful of off-peak services

I suspect the other thing to consider is that there will be weekend services that only need a 5 car and could easily run 5v10 while a 10 is being worked on

 

[221101 Voyager]

the 701s will still run with a guard on board unless there has been a quiet shift in the goalposts since agreement was made with ASLEF

Guards? On a suburban service? That does suprise me as I thought TOCs were trying to get rid of guards.

 

[DorkingMain]

Guards? On a suburban service? That does suprise me as I thought TOCs were trying to get rid of guards.

As I understand it, the strikes last year ended with a guard being guaranteed on every service but with dispatch duties handed to the driver.

 

[Domh245]

I think what makes the 701s hideous is the massive wiper and how it been just stuck on the front like an after thought. Also the horrid livery and squnity little headlights are awful too.

The livery certainly isn't the best, but the 'giant wiper' is not much different to those on the other Aventras thus far, it's just mounted slightly lower because of the wider windscreen and sticks out more against the yellow. I don't think the lights are particularly "squinty" they're the same sort of size as those on the 720s, just with a more angular enclosure. Not that the aesthetics of a train is of any great concern, especially on commuter stock like this

I suspect the other thing to consider is that there will be weekend services that only need a 5 car and could easily run 5v10 while a 10 is being worked on

Possibly, but I would have thought that maintenance wouldn't have been an issue. It's not as if on weekends they'd be using anywhere near all of the fleet, requiring 5 car units being sent out to 'free up' 10 car ones. It's obviously a 'nice to have' that they'll make use of, but it does feel like Cart leading Horse again

 

[221101 Voyager]

As I understand it, the strikes last year ended with a guard being guaranteed on every service but with dispatch duties handed to the driver.

Ah ok, interesting. If the guard doesn't dispatch what do they do? Check tickets and keep the peace I suppose?

 

[infobleep]

Ah ok, interesting. If the guard doesn't dispatch what do they do? Check tickets and keep the peace I suppose?

And be of use in an emergency situation.

 

[TEW]

As I understand it, the strikes last year ended with a guard being guaranteed on every service but with dispatch duties handed to the driver.

Basically. It's not all agreed on paper yet, but that's where it's heading. No SWR service will run with only the driver on board.

 

[DennisM]

Possibly, but I would have thought that maintenance wouldn't have been an issue. It's not as if on weekends they'd be using anywhere near all of the fleet, requiring 5 car units being sent out to 'free up' 10 car ones. It's obviously a 'nice to have' that they'll make use of, but it does feel like Cart leading Horse again

The 5 cars are also quite handy for engineering works, for example this weekend trains terminated at Hounslow due to the Feltham depot works. 10 car trains can’t start back towards London from the down platform as they are fouling the points for the movement back onto the up line. Theres also Kingston/Twickenham bays which cant be used by 10 car trains, not used as part of the everyday timetable but key points for terminating trains during track works.

 

[Goldfish62]

The 5 cars are also quite handy for engineering works, for example this weekend trains terminated at Hounslow due to the Feltham depot works. 10 car trains can’t start back towards London from the down platform as they are fouling the points for the movement back onto the up line. Theres also Kingston/Twickenham bays which cant be used by 10 car trains, not used as part of the everyday timetable but key points for terminating trains during track works.

Yes, having 20% of your fleets of coaches formed into half-length units simply allows for some flexibility.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Theres also Kingston/Twickenham bays which cant be used by 10 car trains, not used as part of the everyday timetable but key points for terminating trains during track works.

But not so good for impromptu short workings, thankfully. SWT were always quick to terminate 8 car trains at Kingston "to reduce congestion towards Waterloo", despite the fact that this dumped a trainload of people two stops short of the junction with the main line at New Malden, leading to gross overcrowding on the platform and on the next service, often leaving people behind. 10 car trains can only be reversed in Platform 2, a through platform, which is of course not a problem if the line is closed beyond that point.

 

[221101 Voyager]

And be of use in an emergency situation.

And that. I think it’s good that guards are still being kept on SWR even on the suburban services. I always feel better having a second staff member on board a train because you never know when things may take a turn for the worse.

 

[KC1]

Just shows that looks are personal opinions.

I think the 701s look great, certainly the best looking of the Aventras, and the livery looks really good on them.

Agreed.

 

[spark001uk]

Now that the ORR has accepted them, does this mean subsequent outings will be with swr drivers at the helm?

 

[Domh245]

Not necessarily. ORR authorisation just means that they can run them in passenger service, it says nothing about SWR's acceptance of them or driver training process

 

[spark001uk]

Ah OK thanks for clarifying. At least it's a step nearer I guess.!
They're getting pretty short now it seems, seeing a few more Readings and Weybridges using 455s than I'd like lately.
Last couple of times I've been past wim pk it's been bare. (not peak time)

 

[DorkingMain]

Ah OK thanks for clarifying. At least it's a step nearer I guess.!
They're getting pretty short now it seems, seeing a few more Readings and Weybridges using 455s than I'd like lately.
Last couple of times I've been past wim pk it's been bare. (not peak time)

Are you sure they're using 455s on Weybridges? They aren't able to call at Virginia Water in the up direction if they use them on there so I thought it was always avoided

 

[Kieran1990]

Are you sure they're using 455s on Weybridges? They aren't able to call at Virginia Water in the up direction if they use them on there so I thought it was always avoided

They used to always work the Chertsey line on a Sunday, no issues calling then. What is the issue these days?

 

[spark001uk]

Are you sure they're using 455s on Weybridges? They aren't able to call at Virginia Water in the up direction if they use them on there so I thought it was always avoided

They are indeed, both directions, the other day one called about 7 or 8pm I think. Plus the last one round (2S77) has been 455 a couple of times a week on average lately, though that normally continues up the main as empties.
Sometimes during engineering work they have used 455s on the wyb-vir/sns shuttle as well.

 

[TEW]

Are you sure they're using 455s on Weybridges? They aren't able to call at Virginia Water in the up direction if they use them on there so I thought it was always avoided

There has been a 4-car out at least once recently on a Hounslow Loop/Weybridge diagram all day, which isn't an issue. 8-cars can't call at Virginia Water on the up though so generally the 455s end up on a Reading diagram in the case of shortages.

 

[Snow1964]

Are you sure they're using 455s on Weybridges? They aren't able to call at Virginia Water in the up direction if they use them on there so I thought it was always avoided

I think 455s have been on Weybridge (via Addlestone) since 1983 (is it really 37 years)

So not sure what has happened more recently (except most platforms platforms were extended for 10car)

 

[Goldfish62]

I think 455s have been on Weybridge (via Addlestone) since 1983 (is it really 37 years)

So not sure what has happened more recently (except most platforms platforms were extended for 10car)

They can be used as 4-car trains, but not 8-car.

Certainly an all-day 455 diagram seems to have appeared on the Reading line.

 

[TEW]

They can be used as 4-car trains, but not 8-car.

Certainly an all-day 455 diagram seems to have appeared on the Reading line.

Since Chertsey has been extended to 10 carriages from 4, they can be used on down services as 8-cars now. The 2322 from Waterloo was booked 8-455 for a while as it goes ECS to Wimbledon Park upon arrival at Weybridge.

 

[spark001uk]

Yes, p3 at VIR is 6 so the 455's lack of sdo is the issue.
That said, on board recorded announcements on all other trains (and possibly on platforms I think?) still call out p4 at VIR as being 6 car, instead of on the up (p3). I did mention to them on twitter a while back that this needs reversing, but they didn't seem too concerned.

 

[DorkingMain]

Yes, p3 at VIR is 6 so the 455's lack of sdo is the issue.
That said, on board recorded announcements on all other trains (and possibly on platforms I think?) still call out p4 at VIR as being 6 car, instead of on the up (p3). I did mention to them on twitter a while back that this needs reversing, but they didn't seem too concerned.

The 458 PIS was a problematic thing even back when I was working them. It used to get itself jumbled in all sorts of ways.

 

[Driver2B]

701004 is the one in the cleaning shed. 701006 left Wimbledon Park on Monday

Thank you.

 

[387star]

I personally think 710s and 720s are quite nice. Where I am (Wolverton) 720s are common sight at the moment and they've grown on me they're my favourite Aventras.


When 701s enter service I wonder what the public will think of them? It'll probably be another ironing board 700 fiasco no doubt. Do 701s have the ironing boards or do they have something that's slightly better than sitting on a lump of concrete?

The same seats as on 700s but with improved padding on the covers as seen on Northern and ScotRail which makes all the difference and could presumably be retrofitted to GTR 387/700/717/377/6/377/7 seats. The 701s have small side tables too. X an imagine anyone using 455s and 456s to see these as a great improvement especially in summer with people using 707s not seeing so much change. However those used to 458s maybe less impressed?

Worth noting soon there will be one livery at Waterloo without the three former SWT variants

 

[221101 Voyager]

The same seats as on 700s but with improved padding on the covers as seen on Northern and ScotRail which makes all the difference and could presumably be retrofitted to GTR 387/700/717/377/6/377/7 seats. The 701s have small side tables too. X an imagine anyone using 455s and 456s to see these as a great improvement especially in summer with people using 707s not seeing so much change. However those used to 458s maybe less impressed?

Worth noting soon there will be one livery at Waterloo without the three former SWT variants

I never knew anything about variants in the 'ironing board' types seats, I thought they were all the same or very similar at least.

On your second point, I quite liked 458's, I like 707's but not as much as some other stock. If 455's and 456's had air con I think they'd be quite good with their desiro seats in they are quite comfy.

It's as shame every train at Waterloo will eventually be 'Black and White' with no colour at all apart from the logos. (BTW I know SWR is Dark grey and white but you get what I mean)

The SWT livery was certainly more colourful! I shall miss it! Bring back NSE! I've never seen any NSE stuff as I'm far too young, but I liked their stand out livery, it's better than Grey!

 

[supervc-10]

I did rather like the way the SWT livery was in different colours for different 'markets', with white intercity, blue suburban, and red urban. It was as a whole cohesive but also had variety.
The SWR livery I really don't like. For some reason it feels like a livery for some fake company in a movie or TV show.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

IIRC the SWR corporate identity was developed in a hurry after they won the franchise, because they had not really expected to win. The logo is very similar to that of the South by Southwest festival in Texas (an arrow pointing south-west).