Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[TEW]

Going back to the SWR order being split into 60 x 10 car and 30 x 5 car, has anyone got an idea if the 5 car versions will see much use as individual units?

Is it likely for instance that they will nearly all (see below) run as pairs during the week, but the Saturday and/or Sunday timetables will see some routes reduce to single units, as we have seen recently with SWT's use of the 455s?

I'd also suspect that the future shuttle service Weybridge to Virginia Water might only use 5 car trains 7/7 - anyone agree with this possibility?

Anything more than a 4 car 450 or 5 car Aventra would seem a bit of an overkill for the Weybridge shuttles. Even if they were overcrowded, it is only a short journey. A 450 on the shuttle could make a lot of sense as it would be an easy way for some depots to keep up their Desiro traction knowledge once they are off Suburban work.

I guess the 5-car units could be used similar to the way the 458s are currently, with single 5 car units being used on some Off Peak and Weekend services.

 

[4630]

Deleted - error in posting

 

[DackandBlecker]

Deleted

 

[Olaf]

I do hope that the procurement of all of these new fleets have covered the risks around the financing; some funds are now factoring in a near-term eight-fold increase in debt service charges.

 

[43096]

I do hope that the procurement of all of these new fleets have covered the risks around the financing; some funds are now factoring in a near-term eight-fold increase in debt service charges.

Leasing costs are inevitably going to rise. Not just for this, but also as those financing the new trains (which are often not the traditional ROSCOs) wake up to the fact that there is risk involved. The case of the Class 707s being off lease after a couple of years use, might make a few wake up to this risk.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Well - we’ve only got a two year wait, so I figured I might as well start the discussion now, seeing as there is likely to be one (after all there is with the 387/700/707/345 etc)

So here is the discussion for the Class 701 Aventra for South Western Railway.

Am I right in thinking that the trains will have transverse seating only and will be 2x2 throughout?

Also - I’m keen to know: Do you approve of the 701s, or would you rather the current 45x trains continued as the suburban workhorses? Or perhaps you think the 707s are perfect for the job and shouldn’t be replaced? The poll awaits...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Update: If choosing option 4 of the poll please explain what type of train you would want to provide the SWR suburban services. Oh and no matter what you choose - don’t forget to tell us why!

 

[yorkie]

Am I right in thinking that the trains will have transverse seating only and will be 2x2 throughout?

Transverse (or, as I refer to call it, longitudinal) seating only and 2x2 throughout? How does that make sense?

 

[bb21]

They won't have longitudinal seating throughout. There'll be a riot if so, even if I personally prefer them.

Details on 701s are pretty sketchy atm, so I doubt many would have any informed judgement on them, but if going by the ambience of the Crossrail 345s, I personally don't mind.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Transverse (or, as I refer to call it, longitudinal) seating only and 2x2 throughout? How does that make sense?

I was told that transverse were forward/backward facing seats and the longitudinal sears were as in what you get on most tubes (side facing)

 

[class387]

I was told that transverse were forward/backward facing seats and the longitudinal sears were as in what you get on most tubes (side facing)

That's always how I interpreted it. I would expect something similar to the 707s in terms of layout.

I'm sure the 701s will be fine. I prefer the Aventra to the Desiro City as a product and the 455s obviously can't last forever.

 

[Malcolmffc]

Nobody in their right mind would want to keep the clapped out 455/456s. I can’t wait for the new trains and the “luxury” of having an onboard toilet, useful after a night out!

 

[class387]

Nobody in their right mind would want to keep the clapped out 455/456s. I can’t wait for the new trains and the “luxury” of having an onboard toilet, useful after a night out!

I wouldn't say the 455s are clapped out given their high quality refurbishment and retractioning, but lack of toilets is a problem, as is their age.

 

[infobleep]

When these units finally come in, do people think they will take over all the Woking to Waterloo metro services or will the 450s likely still feature on some.

What are the loads of one of these 10 car trains vers a 450 12 car train?

The doors on the 701 would certainly open more quickly.

 

[fairysdad]

I actually quite like SWR's 455s and the 456s. They're comfy units, and have proven themselves to be quite good workhorses. That said, my vote above (on a poll which doesn't quite match up with the thread title...) went with the 707s. Mostly because of the way the question was worded, and I still can't fathom why First don't want to use them and are instead getting a different fleet out, basically rendering the 707s useless and wasting money. And, for the purposes of this poll, much like all the discussion we've had about the 80xs, we don't know what the 701s will be like until they are with us.

(Southern's 455s can go to the razor blade factory though!)

 

[swt_passenger]

Well - we’ve only got a two year wait, so I figured I might as well start the discussion now

Why have a discussion, the contract has been let, the decisions made.

If you go back to a few earlier threads, you'd realise that the ITT all but specified 'new trains all round' on the suburban routes, because it stated that dwell times were unacceptable with the current stock, and that the 707s as ordered failed to meet the latest metro standing capacity requirements.

 

[47802]

Why have a discussion, the contract has been let, the decisions made.

If you go back to a few earlier threads, you'd realise that the ITT all but specified 'new trains all round' on the suburban routes, because it stated that dwell times were unacceptable with the current stock, and that the 707s as ordered failed to meet the latest metro standing capacity requirements.

Well quite its a fairly pointless discussion really but then that not exactly a new concept on here is it

 

[swt_passenger]

Well quite its a fairly pointless discussion really but then that not exactly a new concept on here is it

True. Problem is everything that can be possibly said has already been said following the public announcement by SWR, which in my recollection was only a few months ago...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Oh. Well a 345 discussion was created ages before service entry, same for the 707 and 700 and the 387 before that.

 

[samuelmorris]

I think they're referring to the poll - there will be plenty to discuss when the units take shape but the fact that they have been ordered to replace the other units you cite, controversial as it may be, is a done deal, so presumably not worthy of much discussion.

If you look at other class threads you'll notice they are updated sporadically as and when we receive new information.

 

[Clip]

Not been on one
Not seen inside one
Can't form a sensible opinion on one

 

[Suraggu]

When these units finally come in, do people think they will take over all the Woking to Waterloo metro services or will the 450s likely still feature on some.

What are the loads of one of these 10 car trains vers a 450 12 car train?

The doors on the 701 would certainly open more quickly.

The Class 701's will be operating on all suburban routes from Waterloo so Guildford via Epsom and Cobham, Dorking, Hampton Court, Chessington South, Shepperton, Woking, Strawberry Hill and Teddington Rounders, Hounslow Rounders, Weybridge via Brentford, Reading.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Has there been an official confirmation as to the class number allocated SWR's Aventras?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think so - says 701 on Wikipedia anyway...

 

[abn444]

The Class 701's will be operating on all suburban routes from Waterloo so Guildford via Epsom and Cobham, Dorking, Hampton Court, Chessington South, Shepperton, Woking, Strawberry Hill and Teddington Rounders, Hounslow Rounders, Weybridge via Brentford, Reading.

I have a feeling infobleep was referring to the peak fast Woking stoppers (an oxymoron I know) which are currently class 450 operated and I would say that they will continue to be 450s. Unless I've calculated it wrong, the new 701s don't really provide any increase in the number of carriages over all of the current stock that they're replacing with significantly fewer actual units compared to the number of units being replaced. Therefore with the class 701s planned to be used on all or some of the Reading services as well (which are also planned to go up to 4tph) I don't think they'll be used on the peak Woking services. In fact just looking at the original draft of their Dec 18 provisional timetable, most of them have a "1" above their columns suggesting 450s anyway.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Errrr....

I think so - says 701 on Wikipedia anyway...

A Wikipedia article doen't constitute an official announcement, unless the article itself sources an official announcement

 

[Malcolmffc]

I actually quite like SWR's 455s and the 456s. They're comfy units, and have proven themselves to be quite good workhorses. That said, my vote above (on a poll which doesn't quite match up with the thread title...) went with the 707s. Mostly because of the way the question was worded, and I still can't fathom why First don't want to use them and are instead getting a different fleet out, basically rendering the 707s useless and wasting money. And, for the purposes of this poll, much like all the discussion we've had about the 80xs, we don't know what the 701s will be like until they are with us.

(Southern's 455s can go to the razor blade factory though!)

The 707s don’t have toilets or plug sockets and are also underpowered. They were ordered by SWT on the cheap. The 701s will be much better.

 

[Malcolmffc]

I forgot to mention the other huge disadvantage of the 455s - lack of air con. On a hot day they are stifling hot to the point it feels dangerous. And you can’t even open the windows thanks to a design flaw which causes them to slam shut when a train passes in the opposite direction at speed.

 

[D365]

A Wikipedia article doen't constitute an official announcement, unless the article itself sources an official announcement

There are numerous other articles on the web making reference to this classification. I’m fully aware of how Wikipedia should be used.

 

[Suraggu]

I have a feeling infobleep was referring to the peak fast Woking stoppers (an oxymoron I know) which are currently class 450 operated and I would say that they will continue to be 450s. Unless I've calculated it wrong, the new 701s don't really provide any increase in the number of carriages over all of the current stock that they're replacing with significantly fewer actual units compared to the number of units being replaced. Therefore with the class 701s planned to be used on all or some of the Reading services as well (which are also planned to go up to 4tph) I don't think they'll be used on the peak Woking services. In fact just looking at the original draft of their Dec 18 provisional timetable, most of them have a "1" above their columns suggesting 450s anyway.

Ah yes the peak Woking fasts. If the diagrams stay similar to what they are with them then yes likely to stay 450.