Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

Nicholas Lewis · 17 Jan 2022

Goldfish62 said:
Anyway, my point was how long ago they were actually authorised. Given testing was started in June 2020 it would have been by means unrealistic to assume introduction from the Dec 2020 timetable.

Agreed. There is an interesting story behind this which maybe will get revealed one day.

RailUK Forums

FOCTOC · 18 Jan 2022

Hearing that the 701 fleet (such as it is) has been grounded. Anyone else heard anything about that?

swr444 · 18 Jan 2022

FOCTOC said:
Hearing that the 701 fleet (such as it is) has been grounded. Anyone else heard anything about that?

Where did you hear this?

Bigfoot · 18 Jan 2022

Passed a 701 moving in Wimbledon yard today with what seemed like lots of brown paper on the second man's side door area.

Wyrleybart · 18 Jan 2022

Nicholas Lewis said:
They aren't concerned with reliability though or whether the train crew think the cab is workable only compliance to relevant group standards. However, given reports of doors opening whilst on the move you would have to question the integrity of this authorisation.

Doors opening whilst on the move is definitely not good

Goldfish62 · 19 Jan 2022

Nicholas Lewis said:
They aren't concerned with reliability though or whether the train crew think the cab is workable only compliance to relevant group standards. However, given reports of doors opening whilst on the move you would have to question the integrity of this authorisation.

The ORR doesn't address specific build quality issues. It verifies whether the stock is built and may used in service in accordance with various applicable technical specifications and regulations.

DanNCL · 19 Jan 2022

Goldfish62 said:
The ORR doesn't address specific build quality issues. It verifies whether the stock is built and may used in service in accordance with various applicable technical specifications and regulations.

You would expect that a train with defects as severe as doors that open whilst moving wouldn’t comply with those regulations.

444045 · 19 Jan 2022

Re 701's grounded ???

5Q50 0845 Eastleigh depot to Eastleigh Depot via Waterloo currently running 67 late passing Winchester today.

FOCTOC · 19 Jan 2022

swr444 said:
Where did you hear this?

On the railway grapevine. All 701 test trips yesterday and today cancelled, so it appears there's some truth to it.

444045 said:
Re 701's grounded ???

5Q50 0845 Eastleigh depot to Eastleigh Depot via Waterloo currently running 67 late passing Winchester today.

Well that's interesting.

Goldfish62 · 19 Jan 2022

444045 said:
Re 701's grounded ???

5Q50 0845 Eastleigh depot to Eastleigh Depot via Waterloo currently running 67 late passing Winchester today.

So clearly not grounded then.

FOCTOC · 19 Jan 2022

Goldfish62 said:
So clearly not grounded then.

Clearly not!

spark001uk · 19 Jan 2022

Today's 5Q51 has just been partially reinstated too. Just left Eastleigh. (701031)
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C04679/2022-01-19/detailed

444045 · 19 Jan 2022

spark001uk said:
Today's 5Q51 has just been partially reinstated too. Just left Eastleigh. (701031)
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C04679/2022-01-19/detailed

Was U.701031 used earlier for 5Q50 please ?

spark001uk · 19 Jan 2022

444045 said:
Was U.701031 used earlier for 5Q50 please ?

Maybe someone else has eyeballed it, but usually (at least when there were two out on the same day), the diagrams of 5Q4x and 5Q5x were each worked by one unit.

444045 · 19 Jan 2022

spark001uk said:
Maybe someone else has eyeballed it, but usually (at least when there were two out on the same day), the diagrams of 5Q4x and 5Q5x were each worked by one unit.

Ok thank you.

Goldfish62 · 19 Jan 2022

DanNCL said:
You would expect that a train with defects as severe as doors that open whilst moving wouldn’t comply with those regulations.

You'd better ask the ORR then!

Meglos · 21 Jan 2022

Can anyone help with the 701 unit in either road 8 or 9 at Wimbledon Park this afternoon, unfortunately the light was fading as I went past. My initial thought was 701016 or 701018, but with my eyesight I could be completely off.

sharpinf · 22 Jan 2022

Meglos said:
Can anyone help with the 701 unit in either road 8 or 9 at Wimbledon Park this afternoon, unfortunately the light was fading as I went past. My initial thought was 701016 or 701018, but with my eyesight I could be completely off.

701016 was moving through the depot wash when I went past on District line around 3pm yesterday so guessing that's the same one you saw

Meglos · 22 Jan 2022

sharpinf said:
701016 was moving through the depot wash when I went past on District line around 3pm yesterday so guessing that's the same one you saw

Eyesight not too bad then! Thank you for solving this.

73128 · 22 Jan 2022

samuelmorris said:
You don't need them to be running. The existing stock will suffice, especially in winter when you don't need the A/C. New stock, even with less delayed introductions than 701s, is less reliable than the stock it replaces for at least the first year, sometimes several years.

.. except that the 707s are heading for South Eastern, the 458s for their rebuild to replace the 442s, and some of the 455s and 456s already have serious faults not thought worth repairing. Seems that SWR are fairly optimistic about having them in service before too long.

Feathers44 · 22 Jan 2022

Worst case (for me) I guess it’s a bus to Cheam and try my luck into London Bridge if the Waterloo services don’t pick up or are too full.

Pre 2015, or whenever it was, they used to run a full service around here without 456s, 442s and 707s so that’s certainly possible. What I don’t know is whether there were extra services added for the additional stock that can’t now be supported. Obviously the 458s rolling off for shortening will have some impact but I guess they also managed to run stuff while they were being lengthened.

General question, if all of the problems were magically resolved, is there a minimum number of units that need to be available before a new type can be introduced into traffic?

Nicholas Lewis · 22 Jan 2022

73128 said:
.. except that the 701 s are heading for SET, the 458s for their rebuild to replace the 442s, and some of the 455s and 456s already have serious faults not thought worth repairing. Seems that SWR are fairly optimistic about having them in service before too long.

Guess you meant 707's although personally I would have sent 701's to SE and they could have replaced the Networkers although with so many on order they will undoubtedly have a surplus of units now anyhow so they will have to find new homes if they persist on wasting more money on the 458's.

infobleep · 23 Jan 2022

Nicholas Lewis said:
Guess you meant 707's although personally I would have sent 701's to SE and they could have replaced the Networkers although with so many on order they will undoubtedly have a surplus of units now anyhow so they will have to find new homes if they persist on wasting more money on the 458's.

The 701s have loos and on that basis alone, I want them in service.

FOCTOC · 23 Jan 2022

infobleep said:
The 701s have loos and on that basis alone, I want them in service.

They're already full of crap (software)

DunfordBridge · 23 Jan 2022

73128 said:
.. except that the 701 s are heading for SET, the 458s for their rebuild to replace the 442s, and some of the 455s and 456s already have serious faults not thought worth repairing. Seems that SWR are fairly optimistic about having them in service before too long.

Pardon my ignorance but what does SET stand for? I was thinking a depot code, possibly not South Eastern Trains??

spark001uk · 23 Jan 2022

DunfordBridge said:
Pardon my ignorance but what does SET stand for? I was thinking a depot code, possibly not South Eastern Trains??

I think that part is correct, but the poster probably meant 707s to South Eastern. (as also pointed out in #3322 above)

DunfordBridge · 23 Jan 2022

Thanks spark001uk. Did throw me off for a moment when I read about 701s going to SouthEastern, as we already know the 707s are moving there.

thedbdiboy · 23 Jan 2022

theking said:
All this could have been avoided if they just went for a variant of the 345/710/720 rather than design a whole new bespoke cab and unit when it's not needed (gangway or emergency exit)

This is where the dft should be looking in future making sure toc's spec interworkable base stock and let the toc spec the interiors

The DfT need to stay as far away from rolling stock procurement as is humanely possible. Meantime I suspect an early agenda item for GBR will be a joined up national rolling stick plan that will begin the process of untangling 25 years of incompatible rolling stock types. I suspect that we'll be heading into an equivalent of the 1948 locomotive trials, when the mish mash of passenger rolling stock on the network will be used as basis of comparative analysis to identify what will be developed and what will be cast off sooner rather than later.

fgwrich · 23 Jan 2022

thedbdiboy said:
The DfT need to stay as far away from THE RAILWAYS as is humanely possible...

Fixed that for you...

thedbdiboy · 23 Jan 2022

Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

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