Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[gabrielhj07]

Fixed that for you

Very true!

 

[InOban]

I understood that there was a longstanding resistance by SWR drivers to anything other than driving. Was there not a pre-privatisation national agreement on DOO/DCO which was never successfully implemented out of Waterloo? They took the money, though.

 

[Goldfish62]

I understood that there was a longstanding resistance by SWR drivers to anything other than driving. Was there not a pre-privatisation national agreement on DOO/DCO which was never successfully implemented out of Waterloo? They took the money, though.

It has been confirmed by many sources and also several times on this Forum that SWR drivers agreed to DCO in 2021 as part of a pay and conditions package. It's no longer an issue.

Whether a hardcore element are trying to put a spanner in the works is of course a different matter.

 

[Invincible]

Still not quite sure what the Rail Magazine article in post 3665 means by "provisional" acceptance?.
The similar Elizabeth line trains seem to have been accepted?.
It does say Alstom hope to have software updates for July which is when there might be full acceptance

 

[gabrielhj07]

Still not quite sure what the Railway Magazine article means by "provisional" acceptance?.

I haven't read the article yet so I can't be sure, but I would imagine 'provisional acceptance' means something along the lines of: 'they're not quite up to par yet, but we will accept them based on the understanding that they are in the process of being improved/fixed'.

 

[444045]

Deleted...

 

[spark001uk]

Unit 701005 is en route up to Worksop today, for storage. It's not clear whether this is just a space issue or it's having further mods at a later date.

 

[Recessio]

It has been confirmed by many sources and also several times on this Forum that SWR drivers agreed to DCO in 2021 as part of a pay and conditions package. It's no longer an issue.

Whether a hardcore element are trying to put a spanner in the works is of course a different matter.

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what does DCO stand for?

And am I correct in thinking DOO is "Driver Only Operation", like on Thameslink or London Underground?

 

[Goldfish62]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what does DCO stand for?

And am I correct in thinking DOO is "Driver Only Operation", like on Thameslink or London Underground?

Driver Controlled Operation, ie there's someone else on board as well.

 

[tomuk]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what does DCO stand for?

And am I correct in thinking DOO is "Driver Only Operation", like on Thameslink or London Underground?

Driver Controlled Operation - the driver does the doors like DOO but a 'guard' remains on the train. Depending on how successful the RMT union have been the 'guard' has varying levels of safety responsibility from TOC to TOC.

 

[Recessio]

Thank you both!

 

[Carlisle]

Was there not a pre-privatisation national agreement on DOO/DCO which was never successfully implemented out of Waterloo? They took the money, though.

Sort of, BR started paying the nationally agreed £8 daily DOO allowance to South Western suburban drivers to operate class 455 cab secure radios around 1992, but later withdrew it when they refused any further moves towards DOO.
Stagecoach SWT reconditioned the station DOO equipment in 1997-98 but as we all know it never got introduced although I’m unsure if or how much that affected SWT drivers pay rates as a result.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Rock Rail South West Plc the owners of the 701's have deposited their accounts for year ended 31/12/21.

They collected another 62m (50m in 2020) from Alstom for ongoing delays to delivery of units. Its not clear from the accounts whether they are compensating SWR.

Also no units have had a charge raised against them since Nov 2020 which is probably Rock Rail exercising maximum caution given they accepted a few units and then found the customer didn't agree with their assessment of them being fit for purpose.

 

[Snow1964]

Rock Rail South West Plc the owners of the 701's have deposited their accounts for year ended 31/12/21.

They collected another 62m (50m in 2020) from Alstom for ongoing delays to delivery of units. Its not clear from the accounts whether they are compensating SWR.

Also no units have had a charge raised against them since Nov 2020 which is probably Rock Rail exercising maximum caution given they accepted a few units and then found the customer didn't agree with their assessment of them being fit for purpose.

Another interesting one is note 15 to accounts
Now contracted to buy £430m of rolling stock, down £121m in a year. So bought it during the year

However note 8 shows there were £161m of rolling stock under construction additions, so seem to have bought £40m that were previously a financial commitment

 

[Bessie]

SWR tweeted this yesterday. ”Due to the delayed Arterio roll-out having an impact on fleet availability, we've reduced the length of some services. We've been careful to maintain the length of our busiest services & shorten less crowded trains, but apologise to anyone whose journey is impacted.”

 

[gazr]

Can't see things improving anytime soon. All SWR needs is a heatwave and things will get ugly, with rammed trains and people losing their patience. Not to mention Wimbledon tennis is not too far off now.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Can't see things improving anytime soon. All SWR needs is a heatwave and things will get ugly, with rammed trains and people losing their patience. Not to mention Wimbledon tennis is not too far off now.

Well, considering air-conditioned 450s have partially replaced the oven-like “red” stock on Woking/Cobham/Chessington, some might say it was a little nicer than usual

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

As of Thursday 19th May, Alstom advised SWR that all Class 701's must be shut down, and all power supplies isolated due to risk of serious injury or death when adjacent to the traction converter cases.

Not good for brand-new units…

 

[_toommm_]

Do you have a source for this? It’s a very big claim on the history of what seems to be a troublesome unit.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Do you have a source for this? It’s a very big claim on the history of what seems to be a troublesome unit.

Multiple industry sources.

 

[Goldfish62]

Multiple industry sources.

Just as I thought things couldn't get any worse with them.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

This is easily verified or not: has anyone seen any 701 moving, other than being dragged dead by a locomotive, since the 19th?

 

[swt_passenger]

Just as I thought things couldn't get any worse with them.

So if this affects only 701s they must use different traction converter cases to other Aventras? That doesn’t seem very efficient...

 

[Class360/1]

Yet another problem… whatever can come next for these whacked in the face with a frying pan trains?

Seriously, the problems are really adding up. I doubt they will now even enter this summer, yet alone this year.

 

[43102EMR]

This is easily verified or not: has anyone seen any 701 moving, other than being dragged dead by a locomotive, since the 19th?

In all fairness, the one parked at Clapham Yard (think it’s 025?) is shut down with a red headlamp attached - although last I saw this was a few days before the 19th

 

[Boski]

In all fairness, the one parked at Clapham Yard (think it’s 025?) is shut down with a red headlamp attached - although last I saw this was a few days before the 19th

This is still the case it hasnt moved and still has the not to be moved on it.

 

[hwl]

So if this affects only 701s they must use different traction converter cases to other Aventras? That doesn’t seem very efficient...

Or a different batch of capacitors (or other component) that has quality and premature failure issues.

A duff batch of capacitors caused issues with part of the retractioned 455s fleet...

 

[Goldfish62]

Or a different batch of capacitors (or other component) that has quality and premature failure issues.

A duff batch of capacitors caused issues with part of the retractioned 455s fleet...

Ah yes, I remember the explosion at Guildford.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Ah yes, I remember the explosion at Guildford.

All the IGBTs on SWT Class 455s were modified to add pressure switches so when the gases built up, the traction would cut out. Modified units were identifiable by not having the ratchet straps, the straps worked as a 57 unit tried to do the same as 5901 but the traction cases were restrained.

 

[WrongRoad]

At least any work that needed doing to the 455’s they could move under their own power with SWR Drivers being able to get them into Wimbledon depot.Any work on the 701’s that has be done it’s going to be a far more logistical challenge getting these units back to a maintenance depot, all probably going to be have to be hauled shut down by loco.