Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[DMckduck97]

Satisfies the media though. They haven't complained once about the slow rollout since the soft launch of 2 services started... yet that was almost 3 months ago!

Makes you wonder why they haven't run it In the peak doesn't it.

Still think it boils down to a lack of confidence in the cameras and lack of assisted dispatch infrastructure that lines up with the back cab for the guard when it's crush loaded.

Simply cannot think of any other excuse...

 

[Waterlemon]

So why hasn't driver training started?

DOO platform testing shouldn't affect training when only 3 stations on the current route aren't signed off and still degraded.

And most importantly, what is the current hold up and how does this affect running more than the token 2 full journeys Monday to Friday?

Because the moment you start driver training en masse you have a set amount of time until drivers start lapsing. With only 2 return trips a day there wouldnt be enough trains to train new drivers and keep trained drivers competent. To start training you need more units in service. To get them in service you have to sort the issues others have alluded to.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Because the moment you start driver training en masse you have a set amount of time until drivers start lapsing. With only 2 return trips a day there wouldnt be enough trains to train new drivers and keep trained drivers competent. To start training you need more units in service. To get them in service you have to sort the issues others have alluded to.

Has there been any sort of progress on any of the said issues?

 

[DelW]

What I believe to be new ABDO beacons at Richmond, although it should be noted at this time there are no plans for these to be used in passenger service, so likely nothing for at least for the next few years or so.. but better to have then than not

SWR (or NR?) have found a new way to squander taxpayers money while providing no benefit at all to passengers?

As if paying for dozens of new trains to sit uselessly in storage wasn't bad enough.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

SWR (or NR?) have found a new way to squander taxpayers money while providing no benefit at all to passengers?

As if paying for dozens of new trains to sit uselessly in storage wasn't bad enough.

Network Rail. Thing is I think (and I'm not certain on this) similar to the 458 programme this was a contract that was determined before COVID and is unable to be exited without some sort of cost, and therefore it's going ahead despite it not really being needed at the moment.

 

[DelW]

Network Rail. Thing is I think (and I'm not certain on this) similar to the 458 programme this was a contract that was determined before COVID and is unable to be exited without some sort of cost, and therefore it's going ahead despite it not really being needed at the moment.

Yes, true, I forgot to mention all the refurbished trains sitting uselessly in storage, as well as the new ones .

 

[OneTrackMinded]

My personal guess is training will start 1 and half to 2 months from now. Just a guess though, based on the platforms and such needing modifying

 

[swr444]

My personal guess is training will start 1 and half to 2 months from now. Just a guess though, based on the platforms and such needing modifying

Dream on

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Dream on

Maybe one day

 

[SEtrains]

Even more bad news .
Swr has now reverted to one trip to Windsor and back for this week. Any ideas why?
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q17807/2024-03-25/detailed#allox_id=0

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q17852/2024-03-25/detailed#allox_id=0

Realtime Trains | 2U92 1130 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 2U92 1130 departure from Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Y89 1253 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Y89 1253 departure from London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[DMckduck97]

Even more bad news .
Swr has now reverted to one trip to Windsor and back for this week. Any ideas why?
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q17807/2024-03-25/detailed#allox_id=0

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q17852/2024-03-25/detailed#allox_id=0

Realtime Trains | 2U92 1130 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 2U92 1130 departure from Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Y89 1253 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Y89 1253 departure from London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It gets even more bizarre every week!

 

[Snow1964]

Even Chris Grayling MP (remember him?) is saying the capacity of morning peak provided by SWR needs fixing

SWR's spokesperson said: “Our Arterio fleet will transform customer journeys across our suburban network. A limited service is already in operation between London Waterloo and Windsor & Eton Riverside and we are working closely with all our partners to roll out the fleet at scale later this year.”

Note the SWR wording, roll out the fleet, (doesn't say part of fleet) this year

Surrey MP appeals for more train services in constituency

Chris Grayling says that people have contacted him about the busyness of services.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[43096]

Even Chris Grayling MP (remember him?) is saying the capacity of morning peak provided by SWR needs fixing


Note the SWR wording, roll out the fleet, (doesn't say part of fleet) this year

Surrey MP appeals for more train services in constituency

Chris Grayling says that people have contacted him about the busyness of services.

www.bbc.co.uk

SWR said that last year. And the year before that. And…

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Even more bad news .
Swr has now reverted to one trip to Windsor and back for this week. Any ideas why?
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q17807/2024-03-25/detailed#allox_id=0

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q17852/2024-03-25/detailed#allox_id=0

Realtime Trains | 2U92 1130 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 2U92 1130 departure from Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Y89 1253 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Y89 1253 departure from London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

What? That makes no sense. It's not like magically some of their trained driver managers can become untrained. Unless they're having some sort of issue with unit availability, that might be the reason. Nonetheless this situation gets even more confusing everyday.

 

[Goldfish62]

What? That makes no sense. It's not like magically some of their trained driver managers can become untrained. Unless they're having some sort of issue with unit availability, that might be the reason. Nonetheless this situation gets even more confusing everyday.

Those trips are pointless. May as well just stop running them and stick the units back in store. All that matters is training crews so the trains can enter proper service, and that's not happening.

Even Chris Grayling MP (remember him?) is saying the capacity of morning peak provided by SWR needs fixing


Note the SWR wording, roll out the fleet, (doesn't say part of fleet) this year

Surrey MP appeals for more train services in constituency

Chris Grayling says that people have contacted him about the busyness of services.

www.bbc.co.uk

Given that SWR think that 2-4 extra trips in the off peak running a few minutes behind the timetabled trains qualifies as a limited service presumably "rolling out the fleet at scale" means adding another couple of off-peak extra trips.

My personal guess is training will start 1 and half to 2 months from now. Just a guess though, based on the platforms and such needing modifying

So we're expected to believe that immediately following the press launch in January, where the railway media were informed that training would be starting immediately and all trains would be in service within 12-18 months SWR suddenly discovered that various platforms needed altering.

It's either nonsense or SWR are staggeringly incompetent. Frankly, either could be true.

 

[60159]

Even more bad news .
Swr has now reverted to one trip to Windsor and back for this week. Any ideas why?
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q17807/2024-03-25/detailed#allox_id=0

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q17852/2024-03-25/detailed#allox_id=0

Realtime Trains | 2U92 1130 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 2U92 1130 departure from Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Y89 1253 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Y89 1253 departure from London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

School holidays causing staff shortages?

 

[DMckduck97]

School holidays causing staff shortages?

There's no staff shortages currently trained on them, as far as I'm aware they are in a closed pool of crew who only work 701s or sit spare on a just in case basis.

 

[CarrotPie]

There's no staff shortages currently trained on them, as far as I'm aware they are in a closed pool of crew who only work 701s or sit spare on a just in case basis.

Good grief! Talk about inefficiency!

 

[pompeyfan]

I’ve tried to be fair and balanced, but even I’ve got to question how WMR can get gangway cab units of the same family into service quicker than SWR. If it was software then surely the 730s wouldn’t have entered service, WMR have managed to get cabs that a probably significantly less ergonomic into traffic. It leads me to the conclusion (and I have no insider knowledge on this) that DCO / DOO is probably causing the issues, whether that’s because SWR ASLEF reps are dragging their heels, or because the station lighting is causing issues.

There were various night time testing trips for years using these units with an army of people with PTI measuring equipment, light measuring devices etc, so these issues should not have come as a surprise.

Hypothetically speaking, I wonder if SWR reverted to driver open, guard close these units could magically enter service.

The fact I don’t know of a single “front line” Wimbledon that has even been told of driver training starting (plus the fact SWR drivers on here also haven’t been told of training dates) is concerning.

 

[DMckduck97]

I’ve tried to be fair and balanced, but even I’ve got to question how WMR can get gangway cab units of the same family into service quicker than SWR. If it was software then surely the 730s wouldn’t have entered service, WMR have managed to get cabs that a probably significantly less ergonomic into traffic. It leads me to the conclusion (and I have no insider knowledge on this) that DCO / DOO is probably causing the issues, whether that’s because SWR ASLEF reps are dragging their heels, or because the station lighting is causing issues.

There were various night time testing trips for years using these units with an army of people with PTI measuring equipment, light measuring devices etc, so these issues should not have come as a surprise.

Hypothetically speaking, I wonder if SWR reverted to driver open, guard close these units could magically enter service.

The fact I don’t know of a single “front line” Wimbledon that has even been told of driver training starting (plus the fact SWR drivers on here also haven’t been told of training dates) is concerning.

They would probably be closer to entering service, but with guard close the massive elephant in the room is crush loaded peak services and event days.

Platform infrastructure at stations with curves would need CCTV aided dispatch at the back cab for worst case scenario and also signal dispatch aides if signal sighting is unavailable. GOPs not being at opposite doors doesn't help for functionality either.

Not forgetting short platforms which can't be stopped at. (This is all worst case scenario of course) but all possible eventualities have to be covered.

These trains are not designed for a second member of staff onboard and SWR know that. Maybe that is causing more issues than any of us know.

 

[Juniper Driver]

There's no staff shortages currently trained on them, as far as I'm aware they are in a closed pool of crew who only work 701s or sit spare on a just in case basis.

I thought they were generally Higher grade drivers. (DI's)
Not sure if they'd sit spare, as they can do other driving duties.
There isn't enough 701s running to worry about, really.

 

[DMckduck97]

I thought they were generally Higher grade drivers. (DI's)
Not sure if they'd sit spare, as they can do other driving duties.
There isn't enough 701s running to worry about, really.

Yeah HG drivers, not sure on specifics but think it's been agreed that during this soft launch they are all 701 only unless they are lapsing on a route then it is their responsibility to keep it refreshed.

Could be an ASLEF agreement whilst the HG drivers are getting used to them?

 

[infobleep]

SWR said that last year. And the year before that. And…

I think BBC Verify, should verify their claims but whenever I've asked BBC Verify to verify some claim, it never gets taken up and verified.

 

[Goldfish62]

Let's face it, none of us on this thread really knows (or is able to say) what's going on and we can only speculate, either with educated guesses or by adding 2 and 2 to get 5.

 

[43096]

Let's face it, none of us on this thread really knows (or is able to say) what's going on and we can only speculate, either with educated guesses or by adding 2 and 2 to get 5.

If we’re doing honesty… Do SWR really know what the issues are that prevent the blocked Arterios from entering service? You might hope so, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[PG]

Let's face it, none of us on this thread or SWR really knows what's going on.

Fixed that for you

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Let's face it, none of us on this thread really knows (or is able to say) what's going on and we can only speculate, either with educated guesses or by adding 2 and 2 to get 5.

Which makes me confused why so many people - the same names over and over again too - keep posting the same thing, i.e. simply to moan that they've seen a 455 on the Reading line again, or that the situation is a disgrace... I think everyone knows now that the 701 introduction is a farce, the waste of the 458/5s is poor, and that Reading is getting 455s. It'd be nice to click on a thread alert and see an actual update rather than re-hashed ground being hashed again.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Which makes me confused why so many people - the same names over and over again too - keep posting the same thing, i.e. simply to moan that they've seen a 455 on the Reading line again, or that the situation is a disgrace... I think everyone knows now that the 701 introduction is a farce, the waste of the 458/5s is poor, and that Reading is getting 455s. It'd be nice to click on a thread alert and see an actual update rather than re-hashed ground being hashed again.

It was ever thus. Rumours fill the vacuum left by lack of information. Some of the rumours will be true (law of probability and relying on informed guesses). When the truth becomes unavoidably obvious the rumour mill will then gain further credibility.

It is important to look at the visible progress that has been made.

 

[SEtrains]

Even more bad news .
Swr has now reverted to one trip to Windsor and back for this week. Any ideas why?
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q17807/2024-03-25/detailed#allox_id=0

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q17852/2024-03-25/detailed#allox_id=0

Realtime Trains | 2U92 1130 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 2U92 1130 departure from Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Y89 1253 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Y89 1253 departure from London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The second return trip has now appeared on rtt for the rest of the week as a vst path.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The second return trip has now appeared on rtt for the rest of the week as a vst path.

Ah, note to us all, istr that has happened before (that the second return was added at the last minute).